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View Full Version : The woodworking mafia, part#2


Dino
02-24-2011, 11:28 PM
Jusi in,

Name: removed
Email Address: Removed

Message:
Hello,
The reason for this email is to offer you a chance to get your products on my web TV show for our new season in 2011. I know right now your thinking why web TV right? Well the answer is simple, I broadcast all over the world and on several different forums, websites, and iTunes. My focus is on the new woodworkers out there. I have had a great deal of success with this and have gotten great feedback from my shows viewers. So here’s the pitch, I want to help these new wood workers and do-it-yourselfers see, learn, and purchase your products. Fully understand these are individuals that I have a very good rapport with, so for them to see me use these products would be great for you. I have the most sought after advertising opportunity and that is face to face. This develops trust and people buy products from people they trust. The great thing about this is you could advertise for an entire year with me for a fraction of what it costs in the major magazines! So if you want to check out some more on this then go to remove/removed.

I appreciate your time in reading this.

This is how things work at the forums.

Randal Stevenson
02-25-2011, 12:26 AM
Why hide the name? If this is evidence, I see no reason to hide it!

sean9c
02-25-2011, 02:10 AM
Jusi in,



This is how things work at the forums.

When I first read #1 I couldn't understand why you'd bothered starting this thread, reading #2 doesn't make it any more clear.
Does it always have to be critical and negative of what other companies or people are doing? How does this help paint a positive picture of EZ?

bigjohn1
02-25-2011, 02:44 AM
As I see most forums talk the same crap about all the others out there good or bad. I take it with a grain of salt and don't loose any sleep over it. If its a good product for a fair price even with no name on it. that works for me. I just bought a no name router put out with there store name on it and it looks pretty good to me after looking at other brands from home depo. The store was Rona building suppies here in Canada.
21/4 hr dual base even if it don't last ten years was good value for a 100 bucks dang I may not last another 10 lol.

Dino
02-25-2011, 09:01 AM
Why hide the name? If this is evidence, I see no reason to hide it!

Randal, That was a private email.
I see no disclusure of confidentiality and I dont want to publish any names.
What is the difference if that was James or Peter?

if you like, I can send you the info via PM but not to be posted here.

tx

Dino
02-25-2011, 09:08 AM
When I first read #1 I couldn't understand why you'd bothered starting this thread, reading #2 doesn't make it any more clear.
Does it always have to be critical and negative of what other companies or people are doing? How does this help paint a positive picture of EZ?

Sean, are you one of them? NO.
I like to inform people of what is going on in the forums and the blocks.

Why not? This is not about ez..
Internet can be a great source of info and a greater sourse
for paid liers and missinformers.
I will send Randal the info for validation and report this scam to FTC.

thanks.
People need to know.

Dik Harrison
02-25-2011, 10:32 AM
How does this help paint a positive picture of EZ?

Sean,

I couldn't agree with you more...

LarryS
02-25-2011, 11:06 AM
I am confused :confused:

Why would you think that a advertising company approaches you with an offer to advertise EZ on TV be woodmafia?

This is how new business is attracted all the time, by direct mail or email.

Don't see the conspiracy here, unless some other parts of the letter are censored.

In fact if its in the budget you should be creating an advertisement on their network

Just my $.02

Larry

bigjohn1
02-25-2011, 12:25 PM
Forums are to tell others how you feel good or bad. If you don't like it just change the channel don't read it. What is wrong with saying something is good or bad you can agree or disagree. But it gets a little old when you keep telling someone how they should run there business. Do this instead of that. You should be doing this. Everyone thinks they know better but only 10% make it out there in the business world.

I have sean this kinda promotion before and I to believe its a scam like Dino thinks. Has anyone ever heard of this place or sean it on the what web TV. Good way to get some free goods tho.

Its like a mother here at times Don't do this, Don't say that, Don't go there, Don't say bad things about others, Be nice.

If Dino was not the one saying this I'm sure your comments would be different. I really don't care about that kinda thing as a hole but its Dinos threat and can say what he likes if you don't like what he is saying don't go there simple.

Randal Stevenson
02-25-2011, 01:13 PM
There was NO mention of a forum, there was mention of Webtv. This is only a advertiser (the kind of people who try to sell you placements in the newspaper, that they then sell the newspaper as well), trying to drum up business.


Dino, EVERYBODY, is after money. You should have learned that LONG ago. Forums are a business for the owners, and for the VISITORS, a place to exchange idea's and information.

EDIT: Instead of this, why not answer the two product questions I sent customer service (focus there please).

Off to work now.

bigjohn1
02-25-2011, 01:32 PM
Yes I agree that area is weak but don't think that will ever change.

jswingchun
02-25-2011, 02:00 PM
I have sean this kinda promotion before and I to believe its a scam like Dino thinks. Has anyone ever heard of this place or sean it on the what web TV. Good way to get some free goods tho.
Nobody has seen it because the website was edited out of the original email for privacy.

jswingchun
02-25-2011, 02:01 PM
Sean,

I couldn't agree with you more...

+1 from me too.

sean9c
02-25-2011, 02:13 PM
Sean, are you one of them? NO.
I like to inform people of what is going on in the forums and the blocks.

Why not? This is not about ez..
Internet can be a great source of info and a greater sourse
for paid liers and missinformers.
I will send Randal the info for validation and report this scam to FTC.

thanks.
People need to know.

i just think that there is an attitude problem. I don't see that EZ gains anything by criticizing other products and people. I know I don't like reading these posts about conspiracies and misinformers and I know it makes me think of EZ and you in a more negative light. I think the time could be vastly better spent and the reputation of EZ improved if that time was spent talking about the positive aspects of EZ rather than the negatives of others.

Burt
02-25-2011, 02:18 PM
+1 from me too.

Put me on the same list.

I don't see anything here to get excited about. The person is offering to provide a service. I don't see the scam but at the same time I would want a LOT more info before I jump in.

Burt

bigjohn1
02-25-2011, 02:22 PM
Yes I see what you mean but still room for concern I'm sure Dino knows what he is looking at.
And again this info does nothing for me all I care about is the EZ system thats why I'm here
and to make some new friends also gain some knowledge from the tradesman here so I will
bow out of this kinda thing because we all have different thoughts about it and I don't need to
agree or disagree with anyone.

Burt
02-25-2011, 02:40 PM
Yes I see what you mean but still room for concern I'm sure Dino knows what he is looking at.
And again this info does nothing for me all I care about is the EZ system thats why I'm here
and to make some new friends also gain some knowledge from the tradesman here so I will
bow out of this kinda thing because we all have different thoughts about it and I don't need to
agree or disagree with anyone.

John,

Dino is trying to give us information on a bit of what he deals with. I think more detail about the point he was trying to make would have been appropriate.

Dino
02-25-2011, 03:15 PM
guys, is the same guy is going to be upfront that he receives money for promoting my tools in the forums?
The answer is NO.
I see it as a scam against consumers.

LarryS
02-25-2011, 03:18 PM
Put me on the same list.

I don't see anything here to get excited about. The person is offering to provide a service. I don't see the scam but at the same time I would want a LOT more info before I jump in.

Burt

I addressed some of the issues here, in another thread
http://tracksawforum.com/showthread.php?t=1177&page=5

Of course you would want to do more research before paying for a service. Such as the demographic of the viewer or subscriber base to an advertising medium such as TV or a newsletter, that goes without saying.

But new exposure to the right demographic will do nothing but good for Dino and EZ

Larry

Randal Stevenson
02-26-2011, 01:56 AM
guys, is the same guy is going to be upfront that he receives money for promoting my tools in the forums?
The answer is NO.
I see it as a scam against consumers.


Not much different then Credit cards. You pay a percentage to take them, pay for an extra business line (if machine), pay for the machine. Then you have to charge the customer more. The Customer gets to pay interest, fee's. Gets ad's targeting them, etc.

Newspapers, charging x for advertising, then giving out free newspapers at events, to up their membership, to get to charge you more for advertising, because their membership is up. And charging the recipient for receiving ad's targeting them.

Paying for cable tv. Cable tv was supposed to be subscriber based (no ad's that pay for over the air), instead of ad's targeting subscribers.

Get a spam filter, dump this stuff into it, so you don't stress over it. Realize it happens. Realize not everyone will believe either you or them, and there are people who don't even care. Focus instead on area's your customers have been asking for (instead of complaining about competitors), like your instructions (and the instruction video's you started LONG ago), etc.

Take your family out to dinner, thank your daughter for helping you at the shop. Let others help with the email (this will possibly improve customer service emails, as well as stop you from seeing the emails like above). Enjoy life, because when it comes down to it, you can't change others, you can only change yourself.

And BE WELL!:)

Mel Beck
02-26-2011, 02:45 AM
Ya Randal around here we have 4 yes 4 phone book companys. And because different customers use different books, some are prettier. Then if the business owner wants to get to everyone, they have to list in all the books and raise their prices to pay for the listing in the extra books.
Now we are getting a barrage of companys wanting us to pay to be on their recommendation list of good companys. All they do is advertise to call them for recommendations. It should be criminal. The only thing it really does is cost the customer more and more and no-one seems to know.

Dino
02-26-2011, 05:05 AM
i just think that there is an attitude problem. I don't see that EZ gains anything by criticizing other products and people. I know I don't like reading these posts about conspiracies and misinformers and I know it makes me think of EZ and you in a more negative light. I think the time could be vastly better spent and the reputation of EZ improved if that time was spent talking about the positive aspects of EZ rather than the negatives of others.

Sean, I see it as a scam.
You see it as normal way.
Pay me to post in the forums and people to buy your tools?

And if I dont?

I never tried to post negatives about others.
Just the facts after they paid many posters like the one in the email.

Oh yes. Today I take the next step to see the "other sponsors"
Guess who? The same criminals who tried to stop ez from part one.

Dino
02-26-2011, 12:56 PM
Ya Randal around here we have 4 yes 4 phone book companys. And because different customers use different books, some are prettier. Then if the business owner wants to get to everyone, they have to list in all the books and raise their prices to pay for the listing in the extra books.
Now we are getting a barrage of companys wanting us to pay to be on their recommendation list of good companys. All they do is advertise to call them for recommendations. It should be criminal. The only thing it really does is cost the customer more and more and no-one seems to know.

I think it is the new wave for smart criminals.
Even FTC stepped in with new laws that people will find ways to go around.

We're asking to degrade our society and we get what we're asking for...
I don't care if I sell few more or many more ez's.
I will never give in to this kind of blackmail.

Sean, This is not about ez.
Randal, thanks for your advice but...

Burt
02-26-2011, 02:05 PM
I think it is the new wave for smart criminals.
Even FTC stepped in with new laws that people will find ways to go around.

We're asking to degrade our society and we get what we're asking for...
I don't care if I sell few more or many more ez's.
I will never give in to this kind of blackmail.

Sean, This is not about ez.
Randal, thanks for your advice but...

I hear exactly where you are comming from. All you would have to do is read the mail and answer the phone for a small company. People who can't speak english wanting to build a web page for you, Ad's to go in google, special phone books, pay to have our name put in special yellow pages, advertisement on anything from tooth brushes to toilet paper, etc.

These people are constant and persistent. I now have a shreder by my desk - one that will take 20 sheets at a time and that is where the junk mail goes and anymore is usually hasn't been opened. I've developed the habbit of hanging up the phone as soon as I find it is a salesman. People looking for money for charities have never heard of the recession or medical problems. I've told them I have been out for the past several months with open heart surgery only for them to reply, "Can't you give at least $20?"

Then there is the crook who wants to paint your roof or work on your parking area.

Occasionally, there is a legit salesman but you have to qualify his products. One company to the next can vary by 50%. Normally it is 10% plus.

The list of BS couild go on and on. I'm with Dino - I'll lock my doors before I'll put up with some of the junk.


Burt

Randal Stevenson
02-26-2011, 02:35 PM
I deal with those salesman too. Part of my job is to deflect them from the bosses. Hear them on the phone and tell them he will be back around 10:30pm to pick up the money. Tell them he isn't in, when he is standing 4 feet from them (oh, that is a guy we are helping after he lost his job), etc.

Google came out when they did the photo thing and asked us to correct anything. During that process and twice after, they have tried to get us to sign up for things.

Newpapers, etc. want us to put out coupons or something or another. The only papers we have paid for an ad it (no more then our name and address) are the school ones, the kids/customers we know, ask them (the bosses) by name.

Teams looking for sponsers. The one person you know, mentions something to someone you don't, then THEY want you to sponser/donate, etc (and to top it off some ask for where are you).

Not much different from home life, personally.
Things like the phone company (just eliminated them), saying "we can save you money" by charging you more for services you don't need.
Credit card companies, offering to loan you money at x percent.
Solicitors who ignore both the no soliciting signs and no call lists.
Stores that have smells going at certain times of the day to bring you in.
Gambling establishments (I hate and can't stand, but been twice for birthday's) that try to get the fever by the noise (hate that sound).
Amway salesmen AKA towtruck drivers, LOL (boy that business must be booming, since your driving a truck).
Friends (or an old girlfriend) who want you to introduce you to friends, hoping they can get money from them.

The two benefits of home are the no call, and no junk mail sign up lists.
As for the mail, well:
http://www.vertical-visions.com/_temp/postagepaid/index2.html

Then there are books about that whole culture (on my reading list).

bigjohn1
02-26-2011, 03:06 PM
Now thats nasty.

bigjohn1
02-26-2011, 03:10 PM
Now the good news is I have an ez-one shipping next week

Dino
02-26-2011, 03:23 PM
Now the good news is I have an ez-one shipping next week

BJ. best thing about your hard earned money is that you're
supporting a safe and better way for future woodworkers.
Your money is in good hands. ;)

Randal Stevenson
02-26-2011, 03:26 PM
Now the good news is I have an ez-one shipping next week


Enjoy it. I only wish that website wasn't out of date (it was made in 2002). Regulations have changed, and only what will fit in a letter work. According to Post Office Domestic Mail Manual code 8.4.6, "BRM may not be used for any purpose other than that intended by the permit holder, even when postage is affixed. In cases where a BRM card or letter is used improperly as a label, the USPS treats the item as waste."

So all you can do is send them other junk mail, sign up the address for things, etc.

bigjohn1
02-26-2011, 03:30 PM
Yes I know it is Dino or you would not be getting it lol.
Love your tools Dino keep up the good work. Any word on the new Moduni bases and the Extrusion.

vincentvega
02-26-2011, 11:15 PM
I also fail to see how these posts help EZ, or its customers at all.

The time would be far better spent answering emails sent to cs@eurekazone.com

Dino
02-26-2011, 11:41 PM
I also fail to see how these posts help EZ, or its customers at all.

The time would be far better spent answering emails sent to cs@eurekazone.com

It may have nothing to do with ez.
All emails are answered every day.

if some emails dont receive an answer asap, look at your spam, try again or dont use the same email as before.
Few emails require more time that I have to think and provide the right answer.
I can see that is a real problem/issue that we're trying to fix with a new system of offering all parts and components.

I don't even look at my spam folder...
After all this thread may have something to do with ez-emails...
I received so much garbage/spam and advertising ( blackmail in this one) that some legit emails may not receive the right attention.

Do you have time to look at your spam folder?
Do you try to call us?

Try again. My cell is posted and is on 24 hours.
732-259-9984

Try that with any other company.

bigjohn1
02-26-2011, 11:56 PM
Not sure what it is about emails that everyone thinks they should get right away like there is time to answer everyone that comes in yes I know you could get an auto reply but what good does that do. I to wait for email replies and get ansi at times but it all works out in the end. Tired of hearing about emails here when it should be about the tools in most cases. I think if we have a complant it should be done on eurekazone sales site not here. I also know this is where all the info on sales start and Dino tell customers to call him or email from here so not sure what to tell you but Dino has always called or emailed me when he has time right or wrong it does get done.

So as I see it you have to ways to let it out email or phone. Thought this forum was for track saw systems and tools to go with them I think all the complaints should be done else where. Like it is said not good for newbies to hear or is it? IMO As always

sean9c
02-27-2011, 12:55 AM
It may have nothing to do with ez.
All emails are answered every day.

if some emails dont receive an answer asap, look at your spam, try again or dont use the same email as before.
Few emails require more time that I have to think and provide the right answer.
I can see that is a real problem/issue that we're trying to fix with a new system of offering all parts and components.

I don't even look at my spam folder...
After all this thread may have something to do with ez-emails...
I received so much garbage/spam and advertising ( blackmail in this one) that some legit emails may not receive the right attention.

Do you have time to look at your spam folder?
Do you try to call us?

Try again. My cell is posted and is on 24 hours.
732-259-9984

Try that with any other company.

I don't know if it's relevant or not but my email software didn't recognize cs@eurekazone.com as a legitimate address. I used the Contact Us tab on the EZ website instead and received a prompt response.
Maybe the problem is with different email software, the tech is beyond me.

bigjohn1
02-27-2011, 01:05 AM
Yes that could be the answer I you the one on the eurekazone site also or reply to one Dino has sent and it seams to work better. But if I was not getting an answer from emails then for sure I would call and I hate using phones.

Dino
02-27-2011, 01:30 AM
I also fail to see how these posts help EZ, or its customers at all.

The time would be far better spent answering emails sent to cs@eurekazone.com

To understand how things work is good for all.
To know that some guys are making living
from posting at forums is good for all.
To know that the guy using a blue tool at his show makes money from the big blue
and he will go against all other colors with a different name in the forums is good to know?

What destroyed great civilizations before was the failure to see.

Everything dont have to be good for ez, me, eurekazone and the ez customers.
I will never sale my soul for more ez sales and I dont care how some may react with my feelings about an issue like this one.

There is life after ez...I think.

thanks for your advice.

Randal Stevenson
02-27-2011, 02:04 AM
I don't know if it's relevant or not but my email software didn't recognize cs@eurekazone.com as a legitimate address. I used the Contact Us tab on the EZ website instead and received a prompt response.
Maybe the problem is with different email software, the tech is beyond me.

I used both last week, and am awaiting reply, so I don't know that is it. He replied quickly to one question via the EZ website, to which I replied with a request (he said I might need x, and I am trying to understand why). That one is pending. I then asked (via the webpage) about buying the 5' long connectors, if he would drill them (just a drilled uncut connector). I figured he probably drills them whole (one of his EZ jigs I would imagine). He will get to me in time.

To understand how things work is good for all.
To know that some guys are making living
from posting at forums is good for all.
To know that the guy using a blue tool at his show makes money from the big blue
and he will go against all other colors with a different name in the forums is good to know?

What destroyed great civilizations before was the failure to see.

Everything dont have to be good for ez, me, eurekazone and the ez customers.
I will never sale my soul for more ez sales and I dont care how some may react with my feelings about an issue like this one.

There is life after ez...I think.

thanks for your advice.

I approve of you living by your morals and values. I have seen enough things that can't be brought up here (this is a family friendly site), as well as the dichotomy (there is my Greek word of the day), of people. A lot of civilizations were destroyed because of ego. Ego won out over knowledge, or truth.
Unfortunately the world I seem to live in, is neither black nor white, but shades of grey. There is a well known company that has done business in a way I don't approve of. The largest shareholder, now goes out and gives lots of money away, as well as equipment. But guess how the stuff is funded? By the upgrades of the equipment in the future (self fulfilling charity). His companies biggest potential threat, is something created by the users, and funded in large part by people donating their personal time. There are those that attack his company methods directly, then there are others that work more on their own projects to support their cause. The way I see this, is similar.

Goodnight Dino!

Dino
02-27-2011, 02:20 AM
I used both last week, and am awaiting reply, so I don't know that is it. He replied quickly to one question via the EZ website, to which I replied with a request (he said I might need x, and I am trying to understand why). That one is pending. I then asked (via the webpage) about buying the 5' long connectors, if he would drill them (just a drilled uncut connector). I figured he probably drills them whole (one of his EZ jigs I would imagine). He will get to me in time.


Randall, This is a good example.
Some times, emails need more emails and more replies...
waiting for an answer that I have to go over all previews emails.
Do you think I remember why I told you you need another ssme a day after?
Now I have to pull up all old emails to rethink my answer and answer again waiting for your ok.

I even offered to just include one extra ssme and get done with before you requested another special item.
Nothing but possible mistakes that cost more money to the company and the customer.

when the product is not posted as you like it...
(predrilled connectors in long lengths) better use the phone and get done.

thanks.

bigjohn1
02-27-2011, 02:21 AM
Wow thats to heavy for this time of night lol.

Dino
02-27-2011, 02:31 AM
Wow thats to heavy for this time of night lol.

BJ, You can have eurekazone if you like.
I may even pay you to take it. :eek:

bigjohn1
02-27-2011, 03:02 AM
I hear ya Dino can't please the masses all the time.

toollovingschultz
02-27-2011, 09:41 PM
It may have nothing to do with ez.
All emails are answered every day.

if some emails dont receive an answer asap, look at your spam, try again or dont use the same email as before.
Few emails require more time that I have to think and provide the right answer.
I can see that is a real problem/issue that we're trying to fix with a new system of offering all parts and components.

I don't even look at my spam folder...
After all this thread may have something to do with ez-emails...
I received so much garbage/spam and advertising ( blackmail in this one) that some legit emails may not receive the right attention.

Do you have time to look at your spam folder?
Do you try to call us?

Try again. My cell is posted and is on 24 hours.
732-259-9984

Try that with any other company.

Dino I have been thinking about this post there are some good promotional and advertising companies. There are also some that are a lot like the people who extort protection money in the old neighborhoods. They are also similiar to the people who surround famous people to suck a little $ away for doing nothing. Promotional advertising companies invent thier own need then choke out anyone who doesn't buy in. Can we fix the system? no we either buy in or we slug out our business and work hard and hope it is enough.
I think you are doing a great job. If you don't want to buy in to the advertising extortion fine with me stick to your guns. I think eurekazone and ez will succeed on its own. The products are great they are innovative and just work great.

bigjohn1
02-27-2011, 10:44 PM
Dito that for me Dino

Dino
02-27-2011, 10:48 PM
I saw the entire email as an attempt to extrot money ...from the wrong guy.

I received many and I only agree to the ones without any promises of "building trust" and posting in the forums. This is unethical.

Look at the woodweb and you will see our ad.
Simple and honest.

I like to start advertising and support the companies that offer real info and not just the ones that offer "protection'

bigjohn1
02-27-2011, 11:08 PM
Its to bad we need to protec ourselves from the crooks who start the problems in the first place to make what they call business income. Now this is getting pretty bad if we need to pay protection money dang.