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Dino
03-18-2011, 10:07 PM
Hi guys.
Even ez likes to become a fully loaded product line with all the answers.

Squaring cut? buy the ez square.
Squaring cut with out measuring? buy the cabinetmaker arm.
Repeated cuts? buy the repeaters.
Ez rip/cross/miter and any cut? buy the ez-one.
x/y/z routing? the srk and now the ssrk.

from bridges to ez tunnels we covered all.
BUT...there still few tasks that a simple EZ guide rail can do
faster, easier and with no limitations.

Tomorrow we will revisit EZ with many "speak english" videos.
Looks like in the rush to find ez ways we forgot the one tool
that can do it all.

First video is the smart base and the antichip inserts.
With only a simple base we can use any straight edge and have
cleaner cuts than the most expensive tools and blades.

Installation, dust collection mod's and simplicity are in top of the list.
Today, we had to cut few panels and a simple track did the job just fine.
I was thinking for few minutes what tool to use and i wasted more time thinking than cutting few panels.
At the end, I use a simple track and I was done before I desided
what tool to use.:o

back to ez ez it and no new stuff.

thanks.
keeping ez simple is our mode for 2011.
2012 we will see many tools that we dont need to use
but we like to own ...even if. ...:rolleyes:

any ez doctor in house?:rolleyes:

Burt
03-18-2011, 11:43 PM
Dino,

You got to be crazy!

I had a ball today with the EZ One, sizer, cabinetmaker and PBB to STK to PBB Kit. I was working on some huge cabinets - I cut up 14 sheets of 3/4 ply for two cabinets. I did it by myself and came out feeling great. When the wood arrived on Wednesday, I had the driver help me put it on a shelf. When I got ready to go to work, I put the PBB to STK kit on the EZ one and rolled it over near the shelf. All I had to do was pull one end of the plywood sheet to spin it over the Table. Then I slid the sheet onto the table. I had the makita plunge saw along with the sizer and cabinet maker ready.

I did the rip cuts with the sizer and then cross cut with the cabinet maker. It just seemed to be to EZ.

When I had all the big parts cut, I converted the EZ One back, hooked up the Hilti and processed the "scraps" into doors, drawers, a computer cabinet, Drawer fronts, etc that I needed for the cabinets.

I spent the entire day working alone and even had time to work on a revision to my latest EZ Ripper. Just to clarify - a work day for me is 6 hours.

Dino, now for a serious response. We've always said keep it simple. I think sometimes we want to go to the latest tool for the task when in reality that may not be best.

I still remember when we first started the PBB and I built a huge PBB - it could rip a full sheet of plywood. As time went on, I finally got smart and realized that it is easier to move a cabinet maker or square than it is to move a full sheet of plywood.

Our usual recommendation of the more basic tools first is good for the EZ guys. In what I was doing today, I could have done all but about a half-dozen cuts on the EZ One but this time it wasn't the best choice.

Now when I started processing the "scraps", there is no way I could have done it as quickly with the ripsizer/cabinetmaker.

Consider each job to be a jig saw puzzle. Just plug in the appropriate EZ tool in each square.

Burt

toollovingschultz
03-18-2011, 11:48 PM
I am with you Burt. I don't want to give up my sizer or my pbb or the cabinet maker The right tool for the job.

Dino
03-19-2011, 12:23 AM
Dino,

You got to be crazy!

Burt

Burt.
In this complicated world, finding simplicity is a nice break.
What I like to do is to show the capabilities of the ez-tracks without all the fancy stuff.
That is going to help all new customers to try the system.

We sell more ez-one's than tracksaw systems and I dont like it.
Something is wrong here.

Burt
03-19-2011, 12:45 AM
Burt.
In this complicated world, finding simplicity is a nice break.
What I like to do is to show the capabilities of the ez-tracks without all the fancy stuff.
That is going to help all new customers to try the system.

We sell more ez-one's than tracksaw systems and I dont like it.
Something is wrong here.

Dino,

I hear where you are coming from. When you get right down to the basic rail, it can do more as a free rail than it can in the EZ One or any other configuration it is sold in.

I think some of the guys are going to find the videos to be unbelievable.

Enjoy!

Burt

sean9c
03-19-2011, 03:01 AM
Dino,

You got to be crazy!

I had a ball today with the EZ One, sizer, cabinetmaker and PBB to STK to PBB Kit. I was working on some huge cabinets - I cut up 14 sheets of 3/4 ply for two cabinets. I did it by myself and came out feeling great. When the wood arrived on Wednesday, I had the driver help me put it on a shelf. When I got ready to go to work, I put the PBB to STK kit on the EZ one and rolled it over near the shelf. All I had to do was pull one end of the plywood sheet to spin it over the Table. Then I slid the sheet onto the table. I had the makita plunge saw along with the sizer and cabinet maker ready.

I did the rip cuts with the sizer and then cross cut with the cabinet maker. It just seemed to be to EZ.

When I had all the big parts cut, I converted the EZ One back, hooked up the Hilti and processed the "scraps" into doors, drawers, a computer cabinet, Drawer fronts, etc that I needed for the cabinets.

I spent the entire day working alone and even had time to work on a revision to my latest EZ Ripper. Just to clarify - a work day for me is 6 hours.

Dino, now for a serious response. We've always said keep it simple. I think sometimes we want to go to the latest tool for the task when in reality that may not be best.

I still remember when we first started the PBB and I built a huge PBB - it could rip a full sheet of plywood. As time went on, I finally got smart and realized that it is easier to move a cabinet maker or square than it is to move a full sheet of plywood.

Our usual recommendation of the more basic tools first is good for the EZ guys. In what I was doing today, I could have done all but about a half-dozen cuts on the EZ One but this time it wasn't the best choice.

Now when I started processing the "scraps", there is no way I could have done it as quickly with the ripsizer/cabinetmaker.

Consider each job to be a jig saw puzzle. Just plug in the appropriate EZ tool in each square.

Burt

Makita plunge saw?

Tom Gensmer
03-19-2011, 01:16 PM
Dino, you're right-on that it's best to keep things simple!

Burt's correct that it's much easier to move a rail than it is to move an entire sheet of material. That's why I got into track saws in the first place, I was sick to death of trying to feed 4x8 sheets of plywood through a table saw.

The past few weeks I've been chopping up acres of 4'x10' 5/16" James Hardie T-111 fiber cement siding. Once I have the sheet on my cut table, I use a my 54" rail in conjunction with my miter square for cross-cuts, and for rips I have my 72" rail joined with my 64" rail with Smart Clamps at either end.

Last year I did the same project (different building) with Festool rails, and this year I am VERY appreciative of the double-sided nature of the rails, so now I don't have to "helicopter" the rail if I want to change directions.

The ability to clamp close to (or right up to with the Super Smart Clamps) the edge of the material makes planning my cuts easier, and the miter square makes cross-cuts a breeze!

In remodeling I rarely have the luxury of making a symmetrical rip, by and large most of my rips are tapered, so the simple rails are perfect for remodeling!

I look forward to seeing your new videos!
Best,
Tom

Burt
03-19-2011, 01:25 PM
Makita plunge saw?

Correct.

I've been using one for special applications and it seems to be good. It is light weight, quiet and coupled with a Fein Vac and dust deputy it can be a good tool.

You do have to be a bit more cautious and remember what saw you are using.

Both the sizer and square I was using are prototypes.

The ripsizer has the arms that are always behind the saw. Since the saw is started just in front of the arm, the arm functions as a safety device.

Also the cabinetmaker is equipped with a clamp so both hands can be dedicated to the saw.

I did really appreciate the Hilti when I went back to the EZ One.

Burt

roy_okc
03-19-2011, 02:34 PM
Dino,

I've been discussing EZ tools with one of my coworkers. Her husband is planning on adding to their deck this spring/summer. He has a circular saw, probably 7-1/4". His needs would be to cross-cut 5/4 decking and 2x6s.

Problems I see:

First, many 7-1/4" saws (my Ryobi for instance) can't cut through 2X material when riding on the track. Does the Moduni give enough extra depth to solve this for most saws?

Second, the square and handle @ $125 is too expensive and complicated for an occasional hobbyist/home handyman/DIYer doing a home project that only requires 90-degree cuts. How about thinking of a simple and inexpensive way to securely attach a cheap HD/Lowes/etc. aluminum or plastic speed square.

Third, the least expensive tracksaw package is $175 and is 36" long. Too expensive and too long for this kind of project.

Looking at all this and the cost of a package, the current square plus a piece of 18 or 25" piece, and you're at $330+ dollars and a person still may not be able to cut through 2X material with their common 7-1/4" saw. Cheaper to get a miter saw and stand = lost EZ customer.

So, my challenge for you is to figure out how to come up with a $150-175 solution that, using nearly any 7-1/4" saw, will cut square (no other angles needed) 2X material thick and say 1X12 across. Looking at prices for an 18" piece of track @ $30 and a Moduni base @ $55, perhaps smart clamps wouldn't be needed (thoughts?) and you could get the price to $100 including a speed square attachment device.

Roy

Tom Gensmer
03-19-2011, 02:54 PM
Roy, if the ONLY thing the user is looking to do is make fast, accurate 90 degree crosscuts in 1x and 2x material with a regular 7.25" circular saw, the EZ setup may be overkill.

For instance, Bench Dog and Kreg both produce a simple plastic jig that the user simply pushes against the material, and then run your saw against the rib.

Granted, it doesn't have quite the same tracking ability as the rib on the EZ tracks, but for 12" cross cuts with a 7.25" saw, it should be sufficient.

I'm not trying to take food off of Dino's table, but there might be easier, more simple ways to perform this rather straightforward task. Both of the products cost less than $20 and your friend could buy them this weekend.

http://www.rockler.com/product.cfm?page=11466&filter=bench%20dog
http://www.woodcraft.com/Product/2080762/29721/Kreg-SquareCut-Saw-Guide-Kreg-KMA2600.aspx

Please let us know what your friend ends up deciding on!
Tom

roy_okc
03-19-2011, 02:56 PM
Dino,

Challenge #2. Work on order fulfillment. Perhaps something like every Monday, Wednesday, and Friday mornings (whatever days/times/frequency makes sense) every EZ employee works on getting open orders pulled and filled and ready for shipping company to pick up.

I'm patient, a hobbyist, and haven't yet had a need for the capacity (2X cuts) for my new 5008MGA, but almost 2 weeks to get a Moduni base (or any item) would not be good for businesses relying on your products. FYI, I ordered evening of the 8th, received UPS notice on the 11th (I understand you're custom CNCing each Moduni, so acceptable delay), UPS picked up on the 16th(!!! why 5 days to pick up after notice???), looks like I should receive on the 21st if my local UPS doesn't screw up delivery (I've had bad luck with local UPS over the last couple months).

Roy

Randal Stevenson
03-19-2011, 03:06 PM
Dino,

I've been discussing EZ tools with one of my coworkers. Her husband is planning on adding to their deck this spring/summer. He has a circular saw, probably 7-1/4". His needs would be to cross-cut 5/4 decking and 2x6s.

Problems I see:

First, many 7-1/4" saws (my Ryobi for instance) can't cut through 2X material when riding on the track. Does the Moduni give enough extra depth to solve this for most saws?

Second, the square and handle @ $125 is too expensive and complicated for an occasional hobbyist/home handyman/DIYer doing a home project that only requires 90-degree cuts. How about thinking of a simple and inexpensive way to securely attach a cheap HD/Lowes/etc. aluminum or plastic speed square.

Third, the least expensive tracksaw package is $175 and is 36" long. Too expensive and too long for this kind of project.

Looking at all this and the cost of a package, the current square plus a piece of 18 or 25" piece, and you're at $330+ dollars and a person still may not be able to cut through 2X material with their common 7-1/4" saw. Cheaper to get a miter saw and stand = lost EZ customer.

So, my challenge for you is to figure out how to come up with a $150-175 solution that, using nearly any 7-1/4" saw, will cut square (no other angles needed) 2X material thick and say 1X12 across. Looking at prices for an 18" piece of track @ $30 and a Moduni base @ $55, perhaps smart clamps wouldn't be needed (thoughts?) and you could get the price to $100 including a speed square attachment device.

Roy


You sound like me. I love to over-complicate things at times, due in part to when I have gone to do something simple, it always had issues that made it complicated.
Use a speed square and a saw only. Use a test piece to know your spacing, or make a line and use the notch on the saws base plate.

My dad is starting out with his own set, and I showed him the trick from the old forum. You can use a speed square against the rail (lip against where the antichip would be, on the opposite side), but you will trim the speed square. Just use either some EZ clamps to hold it, or use your connectors (or small connector extrusion), with a piece of all thread with a nut and washer on it.
This will do 90 or a 45 angle.
Otherwise, I told dad to make his own, (or order his own), until he gets comfortable with it.

roy_okc
03-19-2011, 03:08 PM
Roy, if the ONLY thing the user is looking to do is make fast, accurate 90 degree crosscuts in 1x and 2x material with a regular 7.25" circular saw, the EZ setup may be overkill.

For instance, Bench Dog and Kreg both produce a simple plastic jig that the user simply pushes against the material, and then run your saw against the rib.

Granted, it doesn't have quite the same tracking ability as the rib on the EZ tracks, but for 12" cross cuts with a 7.25" saw, it should be sufficient.

I'm not trying to take food off of Dino's table, but there might be easier, more simple ways to perform this rather straightforward task. Both of the products cost less than $20 and your friend could buy them this weekend.

http://www.rockler.com/product.cfm?page=11466&filter=bench%20dog
http://www.woodcraft.com/Product/2080762/29721/Kreg-SquareCut-Saw-Guide-Kreg-KMA2600.aspx

Please let us know what your friend ends up deciding on!
Tom

Tom,

I'm not disagreeing with what you've said and suggested above. But I do think this is a missed opportunity to introduce a potentially huge population of potential consumers to EZ--those average people who don't need to build cabinets, rip plywood, etc., but do need to safely and accurately crosscut 1X, 5/4, and 2X pieces. Also, at such an attractive price, it is less painful to try it out and then decide to expand when a customer finds out what a wonderful system EZ is.

Roy

Tom Gensmer
03-19-2011, 03:12 PM
Roy, I very much agree with you that it would be nice to get as many people as possible into EZ. I was simply saying if ALL he EVER needed to do was cross-cut 12" material, then EZ would be overkill.

However, yes, it would be great to get into a EZ simple set for beginning, then expand from there.

Again, please let us know what your friend comes up with for a suitable arrangement, and have a great weekend!!
Best,
Tom

roy_okc
03-19-2011, 03:34 PM
Roy, I very much agree with you that it would be nice to get as many people as possible into EZ. I was simply saying if ALL he EVER needed to do was cross-cut 12" material, then EZ would be overkill.

However, yes, it would be great to get into a EZ simple set for beginning, then expand from there.

Again, please let us know what your friend comes up with for a suitable arrangement, and have a great weekend!!
Best,
Tom

Tom,

With the current offerings and no guarantee to be able to cut through 2X material with a typical 7-1/4" saw, I absolutely agree with you. Also if it were for a single project of a few cuts and never needed again, I agree.

However, if there were a $100 package that could do what I'm asking for, then I believe the quality and accuracy of cuts with the EZ tools for more than a one-time project could make financial sense, especially if the purchaser saw the potential to later use some of the same system with a Ripsizer, B-300, SSRK, or other EZ tool.

Also, this kind of package could be good for professional fencers, deck builders, etc., who might want to buy multiples (one for every saw they have).

Roy

roy_okc
03-19-2011, 03:51 PM
Roy's sub-challenge 1A (conditional on challenge 1 being met):

Videos showing how a DIYer or construction crew could use this arrangement using simple readily and cheaply available (for these people) materials, such as saw horses or picnic table or ???, a few 2x4s, and only other power tool being a drill.

My first thought is temporarily screwing 2 to 4 2x4s to a pair of sawhorses for a work platform, place material on platform, crosscut anywhere and material doesn't fall down. In other words, better and cheaper than a miter saw and stand for 90 degree cuts through typical dimensional lumber.

This setup could even appeal to a DIYer woman (are there any women active on the forum?) or short man who may not have the strength, height, or etc., to comfortably move and set up a miter saw stand and miter saw. I'm trying hard not to be biased, but my average height wife would have an uncomfortable, not impossible, time moving my miter stand and setting up my 10" miter saw on the stand.

With this product, then you have the type of tool and at a price that would be attractive to Family Handyman magazine readers. Are there any professional writers on the who could write such an article or series of articles even?

Roy

sean9c
03-19-2011, 08:30 PM
Dino,

I've been discussing EZ tools with one of my coworkers. Her husband is planning on adding to their deck this spring/summer. He has a circular saw, probably 7-1/4". His needs would be to cross-cut 5/4 decking and 2x6s.

Problems I see:

First, many 7-1/4" saws (my Ryobi for instance) can't cut through 2X material when riding on the track. Does the Moduni give enough extra depth to solve this for most saws?

Second, the square and handle @ $125 is too expensive and complicated for an occasional hobbyist/home handyman/DIYer doing a home project that only requires 90-degree cuts. How about thinking of a simple and inexpensive way to securely attach a cheap HD/Lowes/etc. aluminum or plastic speed square.

Third, the least expensive tracksaw package is $175 and is 36" long. Too expensive and too long for this kind of project.

Looking at all this and the cost of a package, the current square plus a piece of 18 or 25" piece, and you're at $330+ dollars and a person still may not be able to cut through 2X material with their common 7-1/4" saw. Cheaper to get a miter saw and stand = lost EZ customer.

So, my challenge for you is to figure out how to come up with a $150-175 solution that, using nearly any 7-1/4" saw, will cut square (no other angles needed) 2X material thick and say 1X12 across. Looking at prices for an 18" piece of track @ $30 and a Moduni base @ $55, perhaps smart clamps wouldn't be needed (thoughts?) and you could get the price to $100 including a speed square attachment device.

Roy

If you have the track you can quickly make an arm to use as a square. All you need are a couple of short connectors and a piece of plywood (appx 3/4) with one straight edge for the arm. I'm sure you can figure out the rest. I made one from a piece of 3/4 BB ply, works great.
If you're looking at a budget that won't allow you to purchase tracks etc. make a shooting board for your circular saw. There was a good article on how to make them in Fine Homebuilding magazine within the last few months. Check out the library for back issues.

Burt
03-19-2011, 09:32 PM
Roy, I very much agree with you that it would be nice to get as many people as possible into EZ. I was simply saying if ALL he EVER needed to do was cross-cut 12" material, then EZ would be overkill.

However, yes, it would be great to get into a EZ simple set for beginning, then expand from there.

Again, please let us know what your friend comes up with for a suitable arrangement, and have a great weekend!!
Best,
Tom

Tom,

I agree with this statement. I'm not sure that we want to downgrade an EZ tool like you would need to if you were selling it for $100 or less.

For those buying a 7 1/4" circular saw to cut 1 1/2" material, I think you may be trying to make it more simple than is possible. The 7 1/4" saw that shows specs of 2 3/8" when equipped with the smart base and put on the EZ rail normally will not cut thru a 2x. If the specs say 2 1/2" you're all set. Just when we think we have it all figured out enter the bastard size blades and you're in trouble. Not all blades sold as 7 1/4" are 7 1/4" and I don't mean you have to get into cheap blades to find the problem.

Someone asked about using the moduni base for more depth of cut. Let me answer this way. I took some 1/4" plastic and built a mod uni style base for my Makita plunge saw. The specs show a depth of cut of 2 3/16". Measurements show that the saw will cut thru an 1 1/2" board.

I think the added depth of cut allowed by the moduni base and a full size blade, would allow a regular saw showing a 2 3/8" depth of cut to cut thru a 2x.

sean9c
03-19-2011, 09:54 PM
The Smart Base is 3/8" thick, the track is a hair under 1/2" thick. So if you look at the manufacturers DOC and subtract 7/8" that should be what you get.
As long as the mfg info is correct and the blade is accurately sized.

Dino
03-19-2011, 10:31 PM
The Smart Base is 3/8" thick, the track is a hair under 1/2" thick. So if you look at the manufacturers DOC and subtract 7/8" that should be what you get.
As long as the mfg info is correct and the blade is accurately sized.

3/8' thick minus the groove. 5/8" is closer.

Dino
03-20-2011, 12:52 AM
Roy's sub-challenge 1A (conditional on challenge 1 being met):

Videos showing how a DIYer or construction crew could use this arrangement using simple readily and cheaply available (for these people) materials, such as saw horses or picnic table or ???, a few 2x4s, and only other power tool being a drill.

My first thought is temporarily screwing 2 to 4 2x4s to a pair of sawhorses for a work platform, place material on platform, crosscut anywhere and material doesn't fall down. In other words, better and cheaper than a miter saw and stand for 90 degree cuts through typical dimensional lumber.

This setup could even appeal to a DIYer woman (are there any women active on the forum?) or short man who may not have the strength, height, or etc., to comfortably move and set up a miter saw stand and miter saw. I'm trying hard not to be biased, but my average height wife would have an uncomfortable, not impossible, time moving my miter stand and setting up my 10" miter saw on the stand.

With this product, then you have the type of tool and at a price that would be attractive to Family Handyman magazine readers. Are there any professional writers on the who could write such an article or series of articles even?

Roy

Roy,
This is where ez is heading.
The back to ez post is all about a nice yez Uturn to basic needs and
affortability. The only way for ez to survive is to make it affordable and simple/easy for new users to meet ez.
We will see systems for less than $100.00
smart Clamps out.
Ez tracks with antiskid edges.
one simple smart base.

thanks.

sean9c
03-20-2011, 02:26 AM
3/8' thick minus the groove. 5/8" is closer.

Funny that I'm disagreeing with the guy that makes the parts but you set the sawbase on top of the 3/8" thick Smart Base that sets on top of the 1/2" track equals 7/8" the groove doesn't effect measurements

Eastwood Mike
03-20-2011, 05:26 AM
Roy why are you restricting yourself to a 7 1/2 " saw?
If you want the bigger DOC, then get a bigger saw. The 7 1/2 " variety is more suited to panel products which tend to cap out at around 32mm or so. This is the same arena that the other plunge saws compete within.
One of the primary intentions being to make a safe way to reduce full panels down without wrestling a Table saw.

But once you move to solid wood and go beyond 32mm then you are in a different ball game. Here the intention of the product is to now replace things like Table saws for cross cuts and (with the right setups) mitre and ripping actions that the TS is notorious for.

Can it fully replace a SCMS? It has been debated here a few times and the answer seems to be 'almost'.

Can you get the same performance for under $US100? Its a long bow. But remember, you can put virtually any sized saw on this package.

roy_okc
03-20-2011, 06:48 PM
Roy why are you restricting yourself to a 7 1/2 " saw?
If you want the bigger DOC, then get a bigger saw. The 7 1/2 " variety is more suited to panel products which tend to cap out at around 32mm or so. This is the same arena that the other plunge saws compete within.
One of the primary intentions being to make a safe way to reduce full panels down without wrestling a Table saw.

But once you move to solid wood and go beyond 32mm then you are in a different ball game. Here the intention of the product is to now replace things like Table saws for cross cuts and (with the right setups) mitre and ripping actions that the TS is notorious for.

Can it fully replace a SCMS? It has been debated here a few times and the answer seems to be 'almost'.

Can you get the same performance for under $US100? Its a long bow. But remember, you can put virtually any sized saw on this package.

Mike,

I just purchased a 5008MGA @ ~$200 for my use; I've drank the KoolAid and I have the means to do so. ;)

My point is that the typical weekend DIYer isn't going to have a 8+" saw nor want to spend $200 for one, but WILL want/need to cut 2X material.

Burts post above illustrates that between a thinner moduni base and a full 7-1/4" blade, that it is possible to get enough DOC to do this.

If Dino wants to get EZ products out to a broader customer base, this is one way I believe makes sense. If he wants to focus only on people willing to spend several hundred dollars up front between EZ products and possibly a larger saw, then so be it, he's the boss.

roy_okc
03-20-2011, 07:54 PM
Since Dino said he likes solutions instead of problems, I decided to see what I could do with stuff and tools that I have on hand.

I used a plastic Home Depot speed square, a piece from my B-300 that I don't use, drill press, HF cross slide vise, 5/16" drill bit for holes (ignore the hole between 7 & 8 inches), and a forstner bit (in lieu of a real mill bit) to come up with a 90 degree square add-on that appears repeatable within about .1 degree. I used the forstner bit to mill about 2" of the lip so that the square fits on the bottom of the track.

Yes, I'm off by about .3 to .4 repeatable degrees, that should go away with a proper mill or CNC job. I think my .1 degree slop is due mostly to the second hole being slightly oversized. Plastic is not the ideal material for this, but I don't have quite the right tools at this time to try on the metal version of this square. It also needs some sort of knob on the outside edge to help hold the rig in place, I'm thinking a 5/16" carriage bolt and another knob would do the job.

I haven't tried knocking it around hard, but I haven't been able to move it any measurable amount by hand.

I don't know the legality of modifying and reselling a square, such as I did.

Bill (using EZ a la carte prices, where appropriate):
25" EZ track: $43.75
Connector extrusion with 2 studs: ~$10 (guesstimate)
Moduni (maybe thin base a la Burt's post above): $55.00
Metal 12" speed square: ~$15.00
2 knobs and washers: ~$3.00
3rd knob, washer, carriage bolt for left handle (not shown, but need something somewhere): ~$2.00
No Smart clamps included, although they could be purchased separately and used (as shown in pics)
Recommending a full 7-1/4" blade for 2X cutting: $FREE

Total: $128.75 list price, not including additional mod cost. Not quite the $100 I was shooting for, but at the bottom of my first $125-150 range.

As a side note, perhaps this same speed square concept, maybe with a 6" square, could be used with the current EZ miter square at least until a better fix is found.

"I reserve all commercial intellectual property rights for myself and Dino (if he wants to use this idea). Personal, non-commercial use is fine."

Roy L. Nielsen
20 March 2011

bigjohn1
03-20-2011, 08:02 PM
Roy I see robertson screws there mutch better then phillips one thing canada makes well.

roy_okc
03-20-2011, 09:02 PM
Roy I see robertson screws there mutch better then phillips one thing canada makes well.

John,

I had to look up Robertson = square drive screws. :)

Yes, I made the switch last year. What a wonderful difference in using them. Plus, the one's I get are stronger (McFeely's) and I haven't twisted any heads off yet, and reuse them as well. With Home Depot/Lowes Phillips screws, it was common for me to ruin 5 or 10% if I was working with anything harder than soft pine and I would never reuse them.

Roy

bigjohn1
03-20-2011, 09:22 PM
Yes there like EZ work great because there not made in the USA they are not known about in other places but I think besides the allen head screws they are the best made screws.

Dino
03-20-2011, 09:42 PM
If Dino wants to get EZ products out to a broader customer base, this is one way I believe makes sense. If he wants to focus only on people willing to spend several hundred dollars up front between EZ products and possibly a larger saw, then so be it, he's the boss.

roy,
we're working to make simple solutions affordable to all.
the first system is a 54" track with non skid tape and a new smart base.
new way to install the smart base to be exact.
10 sec's and without any tools.

I will do my best to make it easier.

bigjohn1
03-20-2011, 09:54 PM
When will this new base be out Dino? Is that 2012 also with the moduni base or in 2010 I have one saw setup ok right now but you never know how many I end up with lol.

I think the 54" is a great idea and an EZ base dont really care about the tape part of it but I guess it helps in some cases and the others have it so take that away from the beef I guess.

I think if you have a sliding problem just clamp in place. I have never sean you have a problem in videos that you need tape anyway I would think its a good thing.

Burt
03-20-2011, 10:51 PM
Roy,

How about using that setup for 45 degree cuts also?

I don't think I'd go to the 7" square. Any roughness to the surface would throw it off to much.

Burt

roy_okc
03-20-2011, 11:08 PM
Roy,

How about using that setup for 45 degree cuts also?

I don't think I'd go to the 7" square. Any roughness to the surface would throw it off to much.

Burt

Burt,

Good idea. Yeah, 45's should be doable, too. I'll see if I can figure out how to do that in the next couple days.

Thanks,
Roy

Dino
03-21-2011, 10:13 AM
Since Dino said he likes solutions instead of problems, I decided to see what I could do with stuff and tools that I have on hand.

"I reserve all commercial intellectual property rights for myself and Dino (if he wants to use this idea). Personal, non-commercial use is fine."

Roy L. Nielsen
20 March 2011

Roy, good idea with the devil on the details.
Square must be perfect and the drilling of holes must be perfect.

for a quick square you can always insert any framers square to the side track.

About ideas and patent rights.
just for info. the new patent law is going to be: FIRST TO PATENT.

Not fair to small guys but easy for the system in the long run.
Any idea posted here or at any forum is up for grabs by the First to patent the idea?
Sounds crazy but that can make things very easy for the overloaded courts.

martin f
03-21-2011, 12:30 PM
About ideas and patent rights.
just for info. the new patent law is going to be: FIRST TO PATENT.

Not fair to small guys but easy for the system in the long run.


AFAIK, the first to patent system is the one in use by every country in the developed world, apart from the US, and is equally fair to the small and large inventor. You have an idea and keep it to yourself until you are able to describe the invention sufficiently to protect it. Filing the provisional application can be done by the inventor themselves and does not necessarily involve any great expense. The best part is that no attorney's time is spent debating the content of an inventor's notebook.


Any idea posted here or at any forum is up for grabs by the First to patent the idea?


If the reforms do bring the US in line with the rest of the world then any public disclosure becomes prior art and, if it describes or shows the claimed invention, will make the idea unpatentable by anyone... including the inventor. There is no longer the defence that that idea was already in your inventor's notebook.

Martin

Randal Stevenson
03-21-2011, 01:12 PM
AFAIK,


If the reforms do bring the US in line with the rest of the world then any public disclosure becomes prior art and, if it describes or shows the claimed invention, will make the idea unpatentable by anyone... including the inventor. There is no longer the defence that that idea was already in your inventor's notebook.

Martin

Seems like what you know, doesn't coinside with a real world example. Oneida patented their mini cyclone and threatened to sue a competitor, who was making one based on the LONG published Bill Pentz design.

martin f
03-21-2011, 01:55 PM
Seems like what you know, doesn't coinside with a real world example. Oneida patented their mini cyclone and threatened to sue a competitor, who was making one based on the LONG published Bill Pentz design.

Hi Randal, yes that particular case is an example of a patent given out in error by a patent office that is overstretched by an unworkable 'first to invent' system.

I think Bill Pentz originally published his work specifically because he wanted it to be available to all and not subject to patent. Although he did give away a design calculator for private use (and still does) he limited his approval of actual manufacture of his design to just one supplier - ClearVue. How ironic was it that it was ClearVue that was slapped with a 'cease and desist'!

Still, the patent has been granted and this gives Oneida every (legal) right to act as it did. It is for ClearVue to decide whether to ignore the letter and manufacture and face actual legal action (something that it chose not to do in the first place at least). Of course the ideal thing would have been for the patent to have been thrown out by the inspectors right at the start rather than them simply believing in the 'state of prior art' as put forward by Oneida in their application.

Martin

bigjohn1
03-21-2011, 04:03 PM
I'm not a legal kinda person or know mutch about it but dont patent stop after five years or so then anyone can make or does that deppend on how you apply for one.

I dont think patents work that well and like Dino and others if it comes up takes a lot of your time and money to get anything done about it again who ever has the deeper pockets could win that one. Also the big guys just say I'm going to make it and if you dont like it sue me so if they know your not that strong your done and they get it for past practise.

I must be wrong but thats how I see it. So its kinda like no law for the ritch or there are two laws our and there's lol.

Mel Beck
03-21-2011, 05:56 PM
Still, the patent has been granted and this gives Oneida every (legal) right to act as it did.

Martin

Thats right Martin and BJ1 then its public's turn to do justice. But most of the public today just doesn't care. They do business with anyone even after they discover questionable business practices by a certain company. I stopped all business with Oneida once I discovered and found it to be true about the ClearVue thing.

martin f
03-21-2011, 06:50 PM
Thats right Martin then its public's turn to do justice. But most of the public today just doesn't care. They do business with anyone even after they discover questionable business practices by a certain company. I stopped all business with Oneida once I discovered and found it to be true about the ClearVue thing.

Mel, I hope you don't misunderstand me. As a happy user of Bill's cyclone design and a small part-time inventor myself, I was saddened when I first heard about the Oneida/ClearVue issue and read the Oneida patent. It just didn't fit in with my idea of the 'state of the art' regarding cyclones in the workshop.

The patent that Oneida has gives them the right to sue for infringement - it does not mean that a court would uphold their view and the court could well find in favour of ClearVue or anyone else that wants to produce a shop vac based cyclone. The owners of ClearVue at the time chose not to fight that particular battle.

The good news from Bill Pentz's site (http://www.billpentz.com/woodworking/cyclone/cyclonekits.cfm#Announcement) is that the ClearVue name will go on. I just hope that the new owners will reintroduce the mini cyclone which works specifically with shop vacs.

BigJohn - a patent can last up to 20 years, but only providing that you keep paying the ever increasing fees. Otherwise yes, I tend to agree with you ;)

martin

Eastwood Mike
03-21-2011, 07:08 PM
Hi Randal, yes that particular case is an example of a patent given out in error by a patent office that is overstretched by an unworkable 'first to invent' system.

I think Bill Pentz originally published his work specifically because he wanted it to be available to all and not subject to patent. Although he did give away a design calculator for private use (and still does) he limited his approval of actual manufacture of his design to just one supplier - ClearVue. How ironic was it that it was ClearVue that was slapped with a 'cease and desist'!

Still, the patent has been granted and this gives Oneida every (legal) right to act as it did. It is for ClearVue to decide whether to ignore the letter and manufacture and face actual legal action (something that it chose not to do in the first place at least). Of course the ideal thing would have been for the patent to have been thrown out by the inspectors right at the start rather than them simply believing in the 'state of prior art' as put forward by Oneida in their application.

Martin


We had a similar issue between two companies at our workplace. One was Italian and one was American. Both made a machine that tried to do the same thing with vessel leak detection (Pressure decay over time). The idea is as old as time itself. Archemides probably came up with a version.

Long story short the US company claimed the Italian company infringed on patent and mailed out frequently to all owners of the Italian machine 'cease and desist' letters informing those users that they were supporting a counterfeit of protected property and would be subject to penalty. This went on for 5 years. This year it became evident the Patent was erronous and overturned. The US company has since been counter-sued by the Italian company for loss of revenue as a result of all those "cease and desist" notifications. And so the wheel turns.......

One gained market share, but is subject to a payout. Will the payout cost more than the market share gained? Therein lies the gamble.

Mel Beck
03-21-2011, 10:42 PM
Mel, I hope you don't misunderstand me. As a happy user of Bill's cyclone design and a small part-time inventor myself, I was saddened when I first heard about the Oneida/ClearVue issue and read the Oneida patent. It just didn't fit in with my idea of the 'state of the art' regarding cyclones in the workshop.

The patent that Oneida has gives them the right to sue for infringement - it does not mean that a court would uphold their view and the court could well find in favour of ClearVue or anyone else that wants to produce a shop vac based cyclone. The owners of ClearVue at the time chose not to fight that particular battle.

The good news from Bill Pentz's site (http://www.billpentz.com/woodworking/cyclone/cyclonekits.cfm#Announcement) is that the ClearVue name will go on. I just hope that the new owners will reintroduce the mini cyclone which works specifically with shop vacs.

BigJohn - a patent can last up to 20 years, but only providing that you keep paying the ever increasing fees. Otherwise yes, I tend to agree with you ;)

martin

Martin I was agreeing with you. And like BigJohn said, in reality if ClearVue had the money they probably could of won, but our civil laws seem to favor money, who can last the longest, unless there's a large cash payout to help support the lawyers while you wait. The lawyers need to support themselves while they do their jobs (unlike the ones for big business that are on retainer )

Bills stuff is quality and for health, the others unless forced by competition, is for profit, not health.

Sorry for my mis-wording.
Yes Mini-cyclone me too. My steel one doesn't let me see.

Burt
03-21-2011, 11:38 PM
I have no background in the Oneida vs Clearview stuff. When I bought my Oneida units, I looked at both . The metal from Oneida appeared to be a lot more durable so I bought those instead of the clearview.

Randal Stevenson
03-22-2011, 01:33 AM
20 years is common for patents. Then what you see are all the competitors products appearing. Some examples are Little Giant ladders, Fein MultiMaster, The Tormek sharpening system.

Patents get wrongly issued ALL the time. This is why we have Patent reform projects, and all kinds of cases in the court, AT THE SAME time they are asking that the patents be reviewed and rejected for failing to observe prior art. Software patents are frequently this way.
This doesn't even deal with issues like, one can have a US patent, that is granted at the same time someone has a patent in Europe, and both try to get their patents enforced in the other country (due to treaties), while some non patent observing communist country, goes out and makes its version and sells it.

In reality, patents are only as good as the money you have to defend them.

bigjohn1
03-22-2011, 01:59 AM
Yup I agree with that all that work you do and its gone just like that.
that why you get in make your money and get on to someting else.

martin f
03-22-2011, 04:35 AM
Mel

My mis-wording not yours! I just thought I might have sounded to be on Oneida's side when I read my first post back and wanted to be clear.


Sometimes I only open my mouth to swap feet ;)

Martin

Dino
03-22-2011, 09:52 AM
the ultimate patent examiner is the educated consumer.

Imagine filling a patent and making the product for 5 years.
Imagine going to trade shows and even making a special trip to demo the product to the editors of a major woodworking magazine...
only to see an article few years later that their sponsor invented the very same tool. The ez repeaters.

I say, never mind the patents.
You have to have a plan to deal with the situation.


plan a.
what you do in this case?
do you spend another $50.000.00 to go after the company, the magazine
or both?

plan b. making a better product with a stronger patent?

plan c. let them copy all your ideas and patents.
let them open the markets and spend millions in marketing the stolen items..
get ready and strong to copy their version ( that is actually yours)
and lower the prices by 30-40-50 %?

we dont need 4 cnc's to make our parts. Only one.
the other three are waiting for the right time.

bigjohn1
03-22-2011, 02:10 PM
I like that Dino dont get mad get even kinda a way of doing things and agree it a sad case now around the world when a hand shake don't cut it anymore. Well to a lot of not all my word is my bond.

Dino
03-22-2011, 10:26 PM
I like that Dino dont get mad get even kinda a way of doing things and agree it a sad case now around the world when a hand shake don't cut it anymore. Well to a lot of not all my word is my bond.

bj. once a carpenter...carpenter forever.

If you cant win in their game there is no reason to fight a non winning battle.
in time we will offer many tools at unbelievable prices ( always made in USA)

What they will do?
take us to court for making the very same tools that they copied from eurekazone? A new company is in the works as we speak.;)

I always try to protect the other small guys and steer away any idea of making similar stuff. In the festool forum they demand that our tools be copied, One by one.
It started with the ac-2. repeaters,some pbb functions, and the latest request was the ez handle. No, we don't have a patent on the handle and
we cant spend money for every bolt and screw that we use.

The ez handle is multi task tool.
Provides ergonomics and easy of use while eliminating clamping.
Here is a link from the festool forum.
Let them copy all the ez-tools.
Let them spend the time and money to redesign and marketing the stolen ideas. Few more and we can support a new company making the very same stuff. Few days ago we talked about prices on the long rails.
We can produce them and sell them at 40% less.
thanks to their superior marketing and methods of market domination.

whitejacket
03-23-2011, 01:18 AM
Dino you could not have said it any better. Now that is what I am talking about! What you said is the game-changer. I like where EZ is heading.

Joe

Dino
03-23-2011, 01:40 AM
Dino you could not have said it any better. Now that is what I am talking about! What you said is the game-changer. I like where EZ is heading.

Joe

Thanks Joe.
We posted 10 ripsizers on ebay. all sold. One or two every day.
Next week we will post the cabinetmakers.

With the ripsizer and the cabinetmaker combo you have the easiest,
and safest system to make cabinets and not only.
For less than $500.00 you can build your own cabinets and ebay them to get most of your money back.

Do you think they want to follow the same goals?
If they do....good for woodworking.;)
If they dont...people aren't stupid.
They can only systain the fancy adds and paid missinformers for so long.

Look at this forum.
Is getting better every day.

thanks for your help.

Dino
03-23-2011, 02:07 AM
Here is the link.
reality and facts.

http://festoolownersgroup.com/festool-tools-accessories/festool-needs-a-calmp-like-this/

Here we have people asking the company to copy one more item.
The very same people are very active in many forums with only one goal.
Lying about their tools to protect their investement.

If I knew that people are capable of doing that...
Ez was going to stay only a dream.
Now that we know what we're up against....
we must be very creative in many ways.

After all, we owe them a big thanks.:cool:

sean9c
03-23-2011, 02:26 AM
Wasn't that thread about a bunch of guys with Festool liking the EZ system and wishing that their stuff worked as well. Isn't this positive for EZ?

bigjohn1
03-23-2011, 03:15 AM
Good to know Dino I'm here for the ride along with you lol.

Dino
03-23-2011, 09:32 PM
Wasn't that thread about a bunch of guys with Festool liking the EZ system and wishing that their stuff worked as well. Isn't this positive for EZ?

No Sean. The thread was about copying the functions of our system.
One after the other and without any regard for IP or the spirit of the law.

Look at the repeaters.
They attack the idea so many times and the same time they forced the company to make a copy of our repeaters at twice the price and with the usual problems of the aftertoughts.

Best selling item in their catalog for 2 years.
Here is another problem. Look at the videos of the copied tool.
A big joke that lowers the quality of the tracksaw idea because the
problems of ease and narrow clamping capabilities are not there ...yet.

why I care? Because they own the forums and the media.
They admit that they need to have a tablesaw in order to build cabinets and do other woodworking tasks.

The majority of newcomers to woodworking are not going to look any further.
If the King of systems cant do it, a small company like eurekazone is lying.

Actually, the prior owner of the same forum posted in many forums that we
( eurekazone) are doing false advertising.

Not only they like our tools but they like to attack all our ideas until they give time to the company to come up with their own version.

At the end, the editors of major magazines presenting the very same invention as theirs.

This is not fair but who cares?
We did what we wanted to do.
woodworking now safe and affordable.

Thanks to smart table that Gary katz and others liked it so much that they actually posted in magazines that they come up with the idea.
Ignoring our issued patent and attacking eurekazone the same time.

Thanks to smart clamping system that Mathew ( owner of FOG) posted
in many forums that we're lying if we advertise that our system is capable of narrow and repeated cuts.

Thanks to smart router kit, cabinetmaker, guided planer and many other inventions that we cant even talk about it. except here.

Google ripsizer. One of the best tool invented for ripping panels.
I use the tool every day and I can cut faster than a $45.000.00 EU panel saw with less energy, space and with greater accuracy and speed.
I owned all industrial woodworking tools and I know how many times you have to load and unload the good pieces and the cut-offs to the slider.
We eliminated the excessive handling of the large panels and
there is not one thread anywhere at any forum except here.
WHY?

I like to say something here. I'm not upset with all the above.
At the end I will get the best out of the situation and the ultimate winners are going to be the future generations.

In my school they did a bad job with all of us.
They actually reached us about responsibility and Nobel goals without any regard for wealth, fame and success.
Believe it or not they actually told us that we're going to die one day
and ANDRON EPIFANON PASA GY TAFOS.

Read some ancient Greek ( Hellenic) philosophy and mythology.
you may find ycf there.:eek:

BrianJ
03-23-2011, 10:19 PM
No Sean. The thread was about copying the functions of our system.
One after the other and without any regard for IP or the spirit of the law.

Look at the repeaters.
They attack the idea so many times and the same time they forced the company to make a copy of our repeaters at twice the price and with the usual problems of the aftertoughts.

Best selling item in their catalog for 2 years.
Here is another problem. Look at the videos of the copied tool.
A big joke that lowers the quality of the tracksaw idea because the
problems of ease and narrow clamping capabilities are not there ...yet.

why I care? Because they own the forums and the media.
They admit that they need to have a tablesaw in order to build cabinets and do other woodworking tasks.

The majority of newcomers to woodworking are not going to look any further.
If the King of systems cant do it, a small company like eurekazone is lying.

Actually, the prior owner of the same forum posted in many forums that we
( eurekazone) are doing false advertising.

Not only they like our tools but they like to attack all our ideas until they give time to the company to come up with their own version.

At the end, the editors of major magazines presenting the very same invention as theirs.

This is not fair but who cares?
We did what we wanted to do.
woodworking now safe and affordable.

Thanks to smart table that Gary katz and others liked it so much that they actually posted in magazines that they come up with the idea.
Ignoring our issued patent and attacking eurekazone the same time.

Thanks to smart clamping system that Mathew ( owner of FOG) posted
in many forums that we're lying if we advertise that our system is capable of narrow and repeated cuts.

Thanks to smart router kit, cabinetmaker, guided planer and many other inventions that we cant even talk about it. except here.

Google ripsizer. One of the best tool invented for ripping panels.
I use the tool every day and I can cut faster than a $45.000.00 EU panel saw with less energy, space and with greater accuracy and speed.
I owned all industrial woodworking tools and I know how many times you have to load and unload the good pieces and the cut-offs to the slider.
We eliminated the excessive handling of the large panels and
there is not one thread anywhere at any forum except here.
WHY?

I like to say something here. I'm not upset with all the above.
At the end I will get the best out of the situation and the ultimate winners are going to be the future generations.

In my school they did a bad job with all of us.
They actually reached us about responsibility and Nobel goals without any regard for wealth, fame and success.
Believe it or not they actually told us that we're going to die one day
and ANDRON EPIFANON PASA GY TAFOS.

Read some ancient Greek ( Hellenic) philosophy and mythology.
you may find ycf there.:eek:

I got into this system because of the dead wood concept and the new EZ-1 cabinet making capabilities.

Well 12 months later the smart table is just awesome and I have cut tapers from 0 to 1/4 inch no problems in -14 degree weather. This done with t 20 year carpenter watching the accuracy of the cut, the exterior trim fit perfect and no cut fingers. Set up 10 minutes.

I can't say that about the EZ-1 but I'm working on it. Today I purchased 6 feet of 3/4 inch aluminum bar to replace the flexible black ends material. Then I will use the originals as master patterns to reproduce min flex ends. After that I will measure the fence deflection at the 4 foot mark and check accuracy for squareness. If the fence is still bows I will make a square for each section and bolt these to the fence and aluminum end plate. It will never move then. If I can't set the bench square and ready to go in less than 10 minutes I will just loose interest in the tool.

I used the router once on the EZ-1 and it was very poor in accuracy. Just way too much movement and flex. The router was very difficult to control. But that is just the beginning, once we think up a better slider system that is stable for x-y we will be fine and again it must be very fast and easy to set up and use. I'm thinking the saw track plus using the outer rail as a slider support with zero rotation jig/fence. That way it will always be square even with a good hard knock and it has to move very smoothly. Then we have to only focus on the Z. Much like a manual precision x-y table. We may need a precision aluminum machined system but that it just a thought. If I can't buy something that works, I end up making one myself and that kind of defeats the purpose of purchasing in the first place. To set up a router square and ready to go should take less than 5 minutes.


FYI, I'm not a wood work shop type of person. I just want to pull out the bench from the wall and GO. Or take it to the job site and GO. Less space less hassel and always accurate and repeatable. Thats the goal.

bigjohn1
03-23-2011, 10:54 PM
Hmmmm I think that is the goal and from what I hear it does setup fast for some and not so fast for others. I think for 1500 bucks you can't beat it and I hear prices will drop down the road.

Burt
03-23-2011, 11:14 PM
Brian,

Just remember - "You have to crawl before you can walk". Like most things, it takes a little while to make friends with your first power bench or EZ One. Just relax, do some cutting and don't expect perfection the first time. It has always taken a little while for me to learn how to use a new bench - I make the benches and run a cabinet shop.

Burt

BrianJ
03-23-2011, 11:22 PM
Brian,

Just remember - "You have to crawl before you can walk". Like most things, it takes a little while to make friends with your first power bench or EZ One. Just relax, do some cutting and don't expect perfection the first time. It has always taken a little while for me to learn how to use a new bench - I make the benches and run a cabinet shop.

Burt

Thanks Burt:
The Best PB I've seen are all in shop setup on very good carts. They are solid and look great, but I'm in the portable mode. I'm probably pushing the setup vs accuracy/repeatability vs time vs portability envelope. I really wanted to take the EZ1 to the job site and run cabinets there. Thanks for the feedback.

Dino
03-23-2011, 11:26 PM
Thanks Burt:
The Best PB I've seen are all in shop setup on very good carts. They are solid and look great, but I'm in the portable mode. I'm probably pushing the setup vs accuracy/repeatability vs time vs portability envelope. I really wanted to take the EZ1 to the job site and run cabinets there. Thanks for the feedback.

Brian, You can.
Wait for the new videos and you will achive your goals.

tx

bigjohn1
03-23-2011, 11:31 PM
Yes Burt you said it right and agree even though I'm not into production and speed. But to tell you the truth would rather make more then one of anything if I can sell or get rid of it some place lol. Always looking to make a buck some place and have fun doing it along the way. But even if I dont make money with the EZ system will have fun with it I'm sure.

Burt
03-24-2011, 01:08 AM
Thanks Burt:
The Best PB I've seen are all in shop setup on very good carts. They are solid and look great, but I'm in the portable mode. I'm probably pushing the setup vs accuracy/repeatability vs time vs portability envelope. I really wanted to take the EZ1 to the job site and run cabinets there. Thanks for the feedback.

Brian,

There is no reason you can't take it to the job site. Just build proficiency. As you use the EZ One, you'll understand how everything works and that makes moving it much easier. You'll know what it takes to reset each part. You'll be able to determine how much you want to disassemble before you move.

Burt

toollovingschultz
03-25-2011, 08:30 PM
Burt.
In this complicated world, finding simplicity is a nice break.
What I like to do is to show the capabilities of the ez-tracks without all the fancy stuff.
That is going to help all new customers to try the system.

We sell more ez-one's than tracksaw systems and I dont like it.
Something is wrong here.

Now I get it Dino. People should get one track and and a saw base to get started. They can then find out what they need without over investing. A lot of us started that way and it makes the learning curve easier. One new thing at a time keep the imagination going.
The only difference is if someone is etting up a mill shop or has used the system before and know what they want.

Dino
03-25-2011, 10:07 PM
Now I get it Dino. People should get one track and and a saw base to get started. They can then find out what they need without over investing. A lot of us started that way and it makes the learning curve easier. One new thing at a time keep the imagination going.
The only difference is if someone is etting up a mill shop or has used the system before and know what they want.

That was the idea of ez and the u-turn "ez-101" is already started.
With only a smart base you can build nice cabinets.

evething else is for more and more speed,accuarcy ease that most peple dont need. To trim a door and install a kitchen you need a smart base with ac-1 and a level for a straight edge.
to trim narrow fillers you can use the rotating smart clamps.
tomake your own edgebanding you can use that clamp upgrades but you can find 10 other ways to do the same thing safe and easy.
the ez system provides more ideas than tools.
after all, there is no way to make woodworking safe if most people cant use
the right tool...that tool is always under development.
the more you use it the better it gets.


I remember that we use simple setups to make many ez tools
before the cnc's. Now, I push a botton and the brain relaxes...
I have to go this way but others dont.

the tracksaw systems are under total re-thinking.
Only one 64" track and one base.
all other stuff are ''extras''

roy_okc
03-27-2011, 04:09 PM
Dino,

Problems I see:

First, many 7-1/4" saws (my Ryobi for instance) can't cut through 2X material when riding on the track. Does the Moduni give enough extra depth to solve this for most saws?

Roy

Replying to myself... :rolleyes:

I installed a Moduni base on my new 5008 yesterday, taking pictures of both saws and blades including measurements; not all pics here.

First, a side-by-side comparison against a backdrop of two 3/4" pieces of MDF (same thickness as much 2X material). There is approximately an 1/8" or 0.125" of material showing under the Ryobi saw with Freud blade.

Part of the problem is, as Burt has mentioned, that the blade at ~7.15 is not a full 7.25"; however, 1/10" shy in diameter would only add .05" DOC. Does anyone know of a source of oversized blades? Maybe 7.5" blades (it appears that I could fit something larger than 7.25" in my old saw).

Comparing the Smart Base with the Moduni, though, shows a greater difference. The Moduni + track is ~ 0.738" while the Smart Base + track is ~ 0.873", a 0.135" difference. Add that to the 0.05" with a different blade and I would end up with about 1/16" to spare through typical 2X stock.

Forgot to measure the thickness of the Moduni base material.

Not sure if I'll retrofit my old saw with a Moduni or leave it as is. But at least with the total of Moduni material and track thickness, I can help measure and/or discuss with people whether an existing 7-1/4" saw will cut 2X material.

sean9c
03-27-2011, 04:50 PM
Looks like my Makita 5007MGA will cut a hair under 1-5/8" with a Freud Diablo 60t blade. Blade measures 7-3/16" diameter. I found that Makita makes a 7-1/2"x40Tx5/8"arbor blade for a mitersaw. Don't know if it'd fit a CS. Sells in the $20 range.

Burt
03-27-2011, 06:19 PM
Sean,

I have one of the sliding cordless saws with the 7 1/2" blade. The blades I have for it are 7 1/2" but run more in the $40 range. I tried several 7 1/4" saws and the blade would not fit. I didn't have a MGA to try.

Burt

sean9c
03-27-2011, 06:34 PM
This is all I know
http://www.google.com/products/catalog?q=7-1/2%22+saw+blades&oe=utf-8&rls=org.mozilla:en-US:official&client=firefox-a&um=1&ie=UTF-8&cid=4422846094951578320&sa=X&ei=zayPTezZBYPCsAPchLCJCQ&ved=0CDAQ8wIwAg#

Burt
03-27-2011, 08:45 PM
This is all I know
http://www.google.com/products/catalog?q=7-1/2%22+saw+blades&oe=utf-8&rls=org.mozilla:en-US:official&client=firefox-a&um=1&ie=UTF-8&cid=4422846094951578320&sa=X&ei=zayPTezZBYPCsAPchLCJCQ&ved=0CDAQ8wIwAg#

Sean

Same blade. Good price.

Burt

toollovingschultz
03-28-2011, 12:00 AM
Thanks Burt:
The Best PB I've seen are all in shop setup on very good carts. They are solid and look great, but I'm in the portable mode. I'm probably pushing the setup vs accuracy/repeatability vs time vs portability envelope. I really wanted to take the EZ1 to the job site and run cabinets there. Thanks for the feedback.

brian my pbb is very portable legs detach in minutes and it will turn out cabinets on the jobsite.