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Dino
06-05-2011, 12:37 PM
this is good news.

http://www.tool-rank.com/index.php?option=com_tag&task=tag&tag=track-saw

few years ago I received a prototype from Bosch.
after my testing and feedback ...
they told me not to even send the expensive prototype back to Chicago.

now I see that the new Bosch tracksaw is more like a normal saw.
I like to see a front dust port and antichip protection but this is a good start.

Randal Stevenson
06-05-2011, 01:01 PM
Is it supposed to work with your track without a base? (they coming around?)

Dino
06-05-2011, 01:16 PM
Is it supposed to work with your track without a base? (they coming around?)

No.
We talked about it and it was better to follow the other guys.
This way we can have all the tracks similar...easier to mod and combine.

You remember the original ez track? ;)
we already have the molds and patent and after we get the Bosch track is going to be easier to make the ez-one track ...again.

back to ez.:cool:

Burt
06-05-2011, 01:23 PM
Dino,

Like you said it appears to be more like a normal saw. From what I can see it looks more like the Hilti than anything else I have seen. If it has a plunge capability, it would have to be from the rear.

I can't believe Bosch would put this saw on the market without dust collection. That is one thing I like about the Makita. Dust collection is far from perfect but it keeps it out of your face.

Also thinking about Bosch, I don't think I have ever seen a Bosch saw with a brake. Maybe there is a old die-hard some where in that pile of German engineers.

Randal - From what they said in the article - Compatable with Makita, Festool, Etc.,- The Bosch could cut on the EZ rail but the edges would not align properly. Mike G. made an adapter that he used with the Makita to extend the EZ rail and with that add on the EZ rail will work with the Euro track saws. The Worx has the bottom track located a bit differently.

Burt

Dino
06-05-2011, 01:39 PM
Dino,

Like you said it appears to be more like a normal saw. From what I can see it looks more like the Hilti than anything else I have seen. If it has a plunge capability, it would have to be from the rear.

I can't believe Bosch would put this saw on the market without dust collection. That is one thing I like about the Makita. Dust collection is far from perfect but it keeps it out of your face.

Also thinking about Bosch, I don't think I have ever seen a Bosch saw with a brake. Maybe there is a old die-hard some where in that pile of German engineers.

Randal - From what they said in the article - Compatable with Makita, Festool, Etc.,- The Bosch could cut on the EZ rail but the edges would not align properly. Mike G. made an adapter that he used with the Makita to extend the EZ rail and with that add on the EZ rail will work with the Euro track saws. The Worx has the bottom track located a bit differently.

Burt

Burt,
the simple moduni base that I use on the festool is easy to make and fit.
all saws need a nice sub base to glide and protect the saw and tracks,
They all need good antichip protection on both sides of the blade.
They all need good dust collection.

the strips that they use on the track are coming out after some good usage and the strips on the track is another replacable item...by design.:rolleyes:

The bottom line is that we have all the solutions for those who like to replace the dangerous tools or to get into woodworking without a second mortgage.

Randal Stevenson
06-06-2011, 12:13 AM
Randal - From what they said in the article - Compatable with Makita, Festool, Etc.,- The Bosch could cut on the EZ rail but the edges would not align properly. Mike G. made an adapter that he used with the Makita to extend the EZ rail and with that add on the EZ rail will work with the Euro track saws. The Worx has the bottom track located a bit differently.

Burt

I saw that on the rail, but did read it as two saws were coming out (so one for the EZ rails was a thought). Mike G's adapter, wasn't that the post on the old EZ forum (EZ developers forum), the modunirail. The adapter that made the EZ rail, a plunge style rail to the right?

Burt,

the strips that they use on the track are coming out after some good usage and the strips on the track is another replacable item...by design.:rolleyes:




So what, the EZ has no replaceable antichip strips by design?:rolleyes:

Dino
06-06-2011, 12:23 AM
I saw that on the rail, but did read it as two saws were coming out (so one for the EZ rails was a thought). Mike G's adapter, wasn't that the post on the old EZ forum (EZ developers forum), the modunirail. The adapter that made the EZ rail, a plunge style rail to the right?




So what, the EZ has no replaceable antichip strips by design?:rolleyes:

yes Randal.
easily slidable and replacable. Not using glue, chemicals ans heat guns.
I'm talking about all the extra strips allover the tracks.
better to use a plastic base than 4 plastic strips.
The Dewalt tracks have 4 strips at the bottom and maybe more in the top?
why not use strips at the saws?

Randal Stevenson
06-06-2011, 12:53 AM
Being that I have never seen one (other then the Festool and I had no reason to pick it up), your thoughts weren't clear. Photo's in this case might have helped (read it wrong).

Thanks

Dino
06-06-2011, 01:11 AM
Being that I have never seen one (other then the Festool and I had no reason to pick it up), your thoughts weren't clear. Photo's in this case might have helped (read it wrong).

Thanks

Randal. I will buy any tool that I think can provide the edge in one application.
I dont think many shops cut stuff like we do all day.
aluminum, plastic, wood and aluminums, plastics, woods...
Inside and outside the shop.

My Dewalt track is missing all strips after 2-3 months?
I use the Dewalt ( battery plunge saw) to make some quick cuts outside.
Ebay it tomorrow...but the plastic strips are missing.
replacent cost and time to redo the strips?? no way.

I will try to sell the saw only.
maybe they use better glue now. I dont know.
The Makita plunge saw is a keeper for the UEG that is under daily testing.

toollovingschultz
06-06-2011, 05:00 PM
Dino from the pictures this saw looks fairly stable and at 235mm would give a decent depth of cut on the rail. I can't wait to see it in person. A moduni track capable of bevels would give it a good bevel depth. Thanks for the link . As far as good dust collection it is hard to beat a ez dust port.
Andy

sean9c
06-06-2011, 05:30 PM
Interesting that they don't look like they're plunge saws. You can see the spring loaded lower blade guard on both saws just like a regular CS. I'm guessing Bosch has done a lot of research of their competition and made that decision.
Though thinking about it if the saws are not plunge but rather a CS with a slot in the base for the track, Bosch can sell the saw as both a CS and a tracksaw. So one saw 2 markets. Sort of makes more sense than developing another tracksaw for a market that seem saturated already.
I like my Bosch worm drive.

Dino
06-06-2011, 06:49 PM
sean, the decision was the right one.
use the saw on the track and for framing/rough work without having 2 saws and two sets of blades.

more EU makers are going the ez way.
Dewalt and others are offering normal saws with track ability.

the US market was driven by Festool and now is time for a U-turn
to better solutions that was always available.
Even festool makes regular saws for dual use but they dont like to
market them in US...yet....because they dont have the selling plunge feature.

All big makers are driven by marketing...they have to.
Soon we will see the Dewalt dual use saws to compete with Bosch.
Who knows? Maybe a festool sidewinder in few years?

Eastwood Mike
06-06-2011, 06:50 PM
I dunno if this saw is a cousin or not, but Metabo has a CS saw that was dual function. Looked like a normal framing saw, blade guard wise, but you could also realease a plunging facility. Base had a built in groove for a "euro" style rail. Does anyone know if Metabo/Electra Beckam/Bosch are related?

sean9c
06-06-2011, 09:07 PM
Lot of functions if you can use it normally and plunge. I'd guess the saws are expensive. I wonder how they do it? Do you set the regular base for your DOC and then plunge to there?
Having both features sure answers all the questions of what saw you want.

Burt
06-06-2011, 09:51 PM
Lot of functions if you can use it normally and plunge. I'd guess the saws are expensive. I wonder how they do it? Do you set the regular base for your DOC and then plunge to there?
Having both features sure answers all the questions of what saw you want.

I wonder if the saw Mike is talking about isn't actually a lot like the Hilti. The Hilti looks a lot like a normal saw and has a rear plunge function. It does not have a spring to return it to the "unplunged" position.

Burt

Eastwood Mike
06-07-2011, 06:44 AM
I wonder if the saw Mike is talking about isn't actually a lot like the Hilti. The Hilti looks a lot like a normal saw and has a rear plunge function. It does not have a spring to return it to the "unplunged" position.

Burt

is dis one here:

http://www.metabo.com.au/Plunge-Cut-and-Circular-Saw-KSE-55-Vario-Plus.36035.0.html

I don't know if Australia can get the chorded Hilti I've seen in your posts. We only seem to have Battery Powered ones??

Eastwood Mike
06-07-2011, 06:59 AM
Lot of functions if you can use it normally and plunge. I'd guess the saws are expensive. I wonder how they do it? Do you set the regular base for your DOC and then plunge to there?
Having both features sure answers all the questions of what saw you want.

AU$750 gives you the saw, a rail (length?), a 'systainer' and blade.
The Add actually smacks a bit of Festool marketing department.
Even the saw name and DOC is a direct comparison to Festo's 55mm plunge specific saw and the side fence guide looks awefully familiar.

If you think $750 is steep the Festool TS55 equivalent comes in at $999 from the same retailer. I don't know if the metabo as electronic speed control or an electric brake.

And yes the $AU is $1.07 US so we are being fleeced.

Dino
06-07-2011, 10:45 AM
is dis one here:

http://www.metabo.com.au/Plunge-Cut-and-Circular-Saw-KSE-55-Vario-Plus.36035.0.html

I don't know if Australia can get the chorded Hilti I've seen in your posts. We only seem to have Battery Powered ones??

mike, tad is the best saw so far...well except my prototype.:rolleyes:
really. If the saw plunges from the rear the plunge is much-much better,

not only better plunge function but you can use the saw off the tracks like a normal saw.

price?

Eastwood Mike
06-07-2011, 07:02 PM
mike, tad is the best saw so far...well except my prototype.:rolleyes:
really. If the saw plunges from the rear the plunge is much-much better,

not only better plunge function but you can use the saw off the tracks like a normal saw.

price?

From the Pics I can't really tell and I haven't seen one in the flesh. THere was a Australian Wood Review article testing one and Darn if I can't find it.

Price is (for me) exxy because here there seems to be an automatic doubling of price if it is Euro made and a further trippling if a saw has anything to do with track. :o

Can see what we have on offer here (no affiliation by the way):

http://www.sydneytools.com.au/shopdisplayproducts.asp?id=9085&cat=Metabo+Plunge+Cut+Circular+Saws

Price as noted above but you start around $AU700. Some say this is reasonable. Maybe if you need plunge.

Your local prices are likely to be different.

EMike

Dino
06-11-2011, 09:38 PM
Maybe if you need plunge.
EMike

mike, thanks for the link.
I use a similar saw for years now.
Burt and Dik can tell you that.

The right way to plunge the saw is like Metabo.
The patent applied for this type of saws ( rear plunge)
belongs to SMC.
Sears sells the small saw from mastermind tools.
A division of SMC.

Here is a link and the patent application covers the rear plunge action.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bViE5e2K19Y&feature=related



Here is a link of the same design with patent applied.
I found the tool after doing a search to see if my idea was "taken"
and it was...by SMC.
Not "taken" the wrong way but they did file for a patent before eurekazone.

Never mind the patents but the Worlds First is actually the ez prototype saw.
I like the fact that others are designing and making better saws for the future.

The ez-saw is here now. well, with all ez features but this one ( rear plunge)
is one major feature. Who knows? in few more years we may see more ez-saw features and similar designs.

About time that someone ( mastermind/metabo) thing alike.
thanks for the link.;)

Randal Stevenson
06-11-2011, 10:01 PM
Wonder if their edge guide is going to cause patent issues with the UEG? Two points of reference........
++

Dino
06-11-2011, 10:43 PM
Wonder if their edge guide is going to cause patent issues with the UEG? Two points of reference........
++

No Randal. The UEG is more than just 2 points. ;)
At eurekazone we dont copy any tools.
we make the tools to be copied.:rolleyes:

I actually have meetings with mastermind tools.
A very innovative company.
The owner is from India and his company is 100% American...

I just watched the Innovative program with zakarias on CNN.
Innovation is our only way out of the situation.

Overtaken by other very aggresive countries and were sleeping here.
I remember the industrial agents at my only one industrial trade show.
I reported the president and CEO of ( a german tool company)
to FBI. He was spying at the ez-trade booth with a spy camera while I was talking to Chinese and TW trade agents...to help them dump stuff here.
I reported the offer of dumping extrusions ( aluminum) to authorities without any results. ( Ok, after 7 years they did something)
Where I'm going with this?
If we dont wake up to reality and support American innovation and industries
we will become the dumping ground of crooks and criminals.

ps
I have nothing against honest Germans and Honest Chinese people.

The Zakaria report at CNN made me think about the major problems that were facing today in America...I cant believe that.

If I open a plan outside US I will receive enough money to retire
IF I export my stuff to US. ...from the goverment of that country.
Anyway, I feel good after watching CNN after Zakariars and now Piers Morgan.

Do you think I'm crazy?

Jack Welch thinks alike.
Out innovate them...
I like to add something here.
America...WAKE UP.

Turn on CNN.

The ez story is more than few "stupid" tools.
Eurekazone is more than Dino, Burt, Dik, Russ and 1000 members.

WATCH CNN and we continue later?

Randal Stevenson
06-12-2011, 12:58 AM
I have nothing against honest Germans and Honest Chinese people.

The Zakaria report at CNN made me think about the major problems that were facing today in America...I cant believe that.

If I open a plan outside US I will receive enough money to retire
IF I export my stuff to US. ...from the goverment of that country.
Anyway, I feel good after watching CNN after Zakariars and now Piers Morgan.

Do you think I'm crazy?

Jack Welch thinks alike.

I like to add something here.
America...WAKE UP.

Turn on CNN.

The ez story is more than few "stupid" tools.
Eurekazone is more than Dino, Burt, Dik, Russ and 1000 members.

WATCH CNN and we continue later?


I didn't say you copied people, I just don't know how much difference it takes to get something patented, when an idea is generally an old one (cutting strips, I think we can agree, has been going on a LONG time).

As for honesty, well, it isn't like you can just look at someone and tell if they are honest. Dealt with liars who have believed themselves before, and due to that, they will pass a polygraph.

What CNN story? I don't have TV, let alone cable to it (waste of money), so it isn't like I can turn it on and watch. No matter who is on TV, they want to slant things so you come back to watching them, then their viewership goes up, and so does their advertising dollars.

Seems to me we would be a LOT better off in this country, if everyone got off their rears and worked on themselves, and their problems first, and when they saw something local, do something about it, rather then shoveling stuff in our faces, wishing we had the stuff that these people do in these make believe lives, and spending our way into servitude.

Mel Beck
06-12-2011, 04:11 AM
I didn't say you copied people, I just don't know how much difference it takes to get something patented, when an idea is generally an old one (cutting strips, I think we can agree, has been going on a LONG time).

As for honesty, well, it isn't like you can just look at someone and tell if they are honest. Dealt with liars who have believed themselves before, and due to that, they will pass a polygraph.

What CNN story? I don't have TV, let alone cable to it (waste of money), so it isn't like I can turn it on and watch. No matter who is on TV, they want to slant things so you come back to watching them, then their viewership goes up, and so does their advertising dollars.

Seems to me we would be a LOT better off in this country, if everyone got off their rears and worked on themselves, and their problems first, and when they saw something local, do something about it, rather then shoveling stuff in our faces, wishing we had the stuff that these people do in these make believe lives, and spending our way into servitude.

Thanks Randal
You took the thoughts right out of my head (it hadn't got to my mouth yet) much less my fingers.:)

Dino
06-12-2011, 10:05 AM
I didn't say you copied people, I just don't know how much difference it takes to get something patented, when an idea is generally an old one (cutting strips, I think we can agree, has been going on a LONG time).

the idea maybe old ( 2 point edge guide) and you have to convince the examiner that your idea offers few unique and fresh "takes" that can make the task easier and more practical with direct benefits to the consumer.

As for honesty, well, it isn't like you can just look at someone and tell if they are honest. Dealt with liars who have believed themselves before, and due to that, they will pass a polygraph.

What CNN story? I don't have TV, let alone cable to it (waste of money), so it isn't like I can turn it on and watch. No matter who is on TV, they want to slant things so you come back to watching them, then their viewership goes up, and so does their advertising dollars.

you have internet. you can watch the program on cnn.com
search for innovation

Seems to me we would be a LOT better off in this country, if everyone got off their rears and worked on themselves, and their problems first, and when they saw something local, do something about it, rather then shoveling stuff in our faces, wishing we had the stuff that these people do in these make believe lives, and spending our way into servitude.

we have no programs, plans or systems in the land of nbcares...
to support manufacturing and innovation.
Other countries have dedicated and powerfull agencies devoted in transforming US to a dumping ground.

good luck to all.

Randal Stevenson
06-12-2011, 11:17 AM
Their website sucks. Have NO idea WTH story your talking about.
Search by innovation, brings up lots of stories, so trying to narrow it down with innovation Zakaria report brings up one on Singapore:


http://www.cnn.com/search/?query=innovation%20Zakaria%20report&sortBy=date

So googling, rather then CNN's search, MIGHT have brought me closer:
http://globalpublicsquare.blogs.cnn.com/tag/cnns-fareed-zakaria/
http://leadenergy.org/2011/06/fareed-zakaria-innovation-key-to-winning-the-future/
or a 404 page here:
http://www.mediabistro.com/tvnewser/?p=69472

To say we have no programs, plans or systems is naive. It first takes a hunger (you have to have the drive), because companies, who would be your competitors certainly use our system, to push their own plans, in hopes of limiting ones opportunity, at a profit to them. But again, without a LINK, I can't take what your saying, in the context that you may mean, but only in what I think you mean.

Dino
06-12-2011, 12:50 PM
myfault randal.
back to woodworking?

do you like the world's first ez hy-saw?
why we dont have saws like that in the market is another story. ;)

the one on the link was only a test of the theory.
Rear Plunge saws work BETTER.
Front plunge saws are ( why they even make them like that?)
in the future all saws are going to be made like the Metabo- mastermind and who knows?
Maybe we will see the true Hy-Saw one day.

Here is a fact.
First one designed was 10 years ago.
The industrial designer ( My friend Jim, a third gen. american/german guy) is now teaching
HOW TO THINK AND DESIGN ....IN CHINA...
after he read few threads in the forums ( 6 years ago?) he told me:

Good luck Dino.
I'm going to China.
You have no idea what you're up against.
there is no future here.

I try to prove him wrong ...good luck.

Dino
06-12-2011, 01:17 PM
here is another example of our system in place.
I just received one order for $2500.00 for one country in EU.

Our customs-house requires that one person can receive privately not more than 30 kg from abroad per month and mustn't transfer abroad more than 1000,-Euro per month (the transportation costs are not included).
So, the payment will be made from two persons -

This is only one small example of many problems that american makers and exporters are facing every day. This is not a fair game.

Eastwood Mike
06-22-2011, 04:09 AM
here is another example of our system in place.
I just received one order for $2500.00 for one country in EU.



This is only one small example of many problems that american makers and exporters are facing every day. This is not a fair game.


Maybe Dino. We have similar laws in Australia. Only it relates to dodging import duty. These limits are to stop people importing for professional reasons. For me it is $1000. AU. It technically should include the shipping price. Also split deliveries to the same postal address within a short timeframe get picked up. Import duties add 15% to our costs. Including the shipping cost. The Government takes 10%. Customs Pockets the 5%.

But don't fret. The US has similar taxation concessions and laws to safeguard their manufacturing industries (as best they can). My workplace was slated to close down because of them. Our government has nothing.

Tom Gensmer
08-22-2011, 12:04 AM
I REALLY like the looks of the Bosch saws, particularly the larger one!!! Two design elements really catch my eye. The first is the dual bevel locking points, one in the rear and one in the front, which seem like would add a greater deal of stability in bevel cuts This same feature can be found on the Festool saws, the old Porter Cable worm drive trim saw (I think it used a 5 3/8" blade), and the Makita 5104. The second design element that caught my eye is the riving knife on the GKS 85 G.

The lack of dust collection doesn't bother me so much since Dino has the equipment available to make it work.

The GKS 85 G could be a big competitor to the Makita 5008 for EZ users, but some details remain to be seen, such as arbor size, price, etc...

Anyways, nice find Dino!!

Original link posted by Dino:
http://www.tool-rank.com/index.php?option=com_tag&task=tag&tag=track-saw

Tom Gensmer
08-22-2011, 12:51 AM
Here is the link to a English language site for the larger Bosch saw.

Looks like it uses a 9.25" blade with a 30mm arbor. So, for most wood cutting applications you'd be stuck with the proprietary blades. Of course, you could always use 8.25" blades and have the arbor bore increased to 30mm.

Oh, and it has a soft start!! I have found this to be a great feature, particularly when you're on the saw all day!!

Anyways, a pretty slick looking saw!!!

http://www.bosch-professional.com/gb/en/ocs/tools/101349/25402/hand-held-circular-saws/gks-85-g/

Dino
08-22-2011, 09:28 AM
Tom, looks like Bosch likes to have it all.
They start making plunge saws too.
Same as festool, dewalt and Makita.


One step ahead and two steps back...
not to leave any money on the table.:rolleyes:

I really like the normal saws but the next Mastercraft
is going to be the clear winner and the only saw that we will sell
until our easy saw is ready.

Maybe we can get our hands on the new Metabo saws?
Rear plunge/sidewinder like the Mastercraft.

Last week we re-test many saws and the Mastercraft was the clear winner.
Imagine the next model?;)

bumpnstump
08-22-2011, 02:59 PM
Dino, would you have any realistic ETA on when the EZ saws might become available? I'm looking ahead to get a designated saw for my EZ-ONE, and if you've something on the table that will 'soon' be available, I might wait.
Thanks,
Rick