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Philphoto
07-12-2011, 03:01 AM
I have been reading several threads that compare EZ 1 to a table saw. I understand that. I do not own the EZ 1 but I am trying to find complete comparisons. Yes the EZ 1 does most or all of the things a table saw will do, albeit differently and without some of the jigs like mortise and tenon. However, I have not found any comparisons to chop saws like my Bosch dual bevel compound miter saw. From what I see in the demo videos, many if not all of the functions of a 10 or 12" compound miter saw can be accomplished on the EZ1. Am I misunderstanding something?

When one compares the price of a table saw, chop saw, miter saw, dado and rabbet capability, and the edge treatment capability. Well the price vs cost analysis is stunning. My table saw with the Biesmeyer fence, and 220 volt wiring, was about $700. My Bosch Compound dual bevel sliding miter saw and Port-a-bench was about $700. Add in the dado blades, and router treatment. Well that is much more than the EZ1. PLUS! I have an 800 lbs. table saw monstrosity that I can not take out the door let alone the jobsite. Plus the table saw only does a few things.

While I think safety is a big deal, it is the all-in-one package/portability that motivates me the most. Looking at the ability to easily take the EZ 1, Rip Sizer, Smart Table, and SSRK with some track,to a job site is a major issue. Doing cabinets on site and double checking assembly, look and fit, as we go is a priceless capability. I do not know a cabinet maker that has not had to redo at least a part of a job, that would have been avoided by on site construction. All of says nothing about jobs that have to be built on site.

I have only superficially examined the cost of shop space per foot. As a table saw needs about 10' x 20' for ripping and most operations. Our area has a typical shop -garage space building cost of $150 per foot, (yours may be different) x 200 sq ft. that is a whopping $30,000.!!! compared to the EZ 1. Well I can not find a space requirement but it looks like the size of a sheet plus, so 6'x10'? so a $21,000 sq. ft. price savings!

Any comments are really appreciated. Negative or positive.
Phil

Randal Stevenson
07-12-2011, 03:18 AM
many if not all of the functions of a 10 or 12" compound miter saw can be accomplished on the EZ1. Am I misunderstanding something?


Phil


Dino still hasn't released a way of repeatedly setting angles. Many have modified a miter gauge to do that.
Bevels can be tricky, especially 22.5, as the Bridge itself isn't marked and most saws don't have that angle. Also the EZ one can be more to carry then a regular, non sliding miter saw, when doing a simple crown molding job.
But for jobs where your cutting straight or 45, the EZ one (or a small home built version), will easily handle that all day. (using stops, a speed square, or some fixed reference point).
At this point a CMS, is still in the game, but a slider, I can't see getting.
Next year at this time, who knows what it will bring.:)

Burt
07-12-2011, 11:13 AM
Phil,

A few days a go I made a list of equipment that I had moved out of the shop since I started with EZ and I forgot to mention a Makita LS1212 - 12" sliding miter saw. I run a cabinet shop and the primary purpose of the sliding compound was cross cuts in 12" or less width matrerial.

As soon as I made a cross cutter, the Sliding Miter left. At the time Dino came out with the aluminum fence/stop extrusion I was experimenting with transferring the cross cut function to a normal power bench. The most recent fence idea has eliminated the need for a cross cutter.

I make my cabinets in the shop but I also install them and do renovtion work on existing kitchens. A few months ago, I made a 50" x 28" power bench and added two extensions of about 30" x 14". I find this to be near perfect for job site work.

I mentioned the tools that I have moved out since EZ moved in: Here is a list of those I can think of: 2 Delta unisaws - 5 horse and 3 horse, panel saw, over arm pen router, approx 6 router tables, 4 stock feeders, Makita 12" sliding compound miter, Set up gadgets and accessories for table saws, jobsite table saw and stand, more 10" blades than I care to think of. Most of those router tables were in the ball park of $1500 each: Vertias tables with Fence and sliding square work support, 3 horse router, stock feeder, etc.

I just ran a rough replacement value on that stuff and it comes to about $17,000. That would buy a pile of EZ Stuff.

As for square footage required you're correct about the savings there. The 20' you talked about is only good enough to do an 8' board. Building space varies a lot depending on your location but to me it never seems there is enough.

One very important thing to me that you didn't mention is "ease of work". At this stage of the game I couldn't do what I do with a table saw.


Burt

Philphoto
07-12-2011, 01:13 PM
Thank you for articulating so well what I was suspecting. I think it a bit humorous that several woodworking magazines are publishing whole series on workshops. Feature after feature about how this or that guy made great use of their limited space. When a bunch of EZ System gear will eliminate most of it. You are right about space -There never is enough.

On the other comment -- I bought a Compound Slider purely to avoid doing crosscuts and angled cuts on my table saw. The use of a sled -- actually most jigs as well -- require the removal of guards. I always figured if someone went to the trouble of inventing it -- there is a reason! I understand that 22.5 deg. cuts are not really feasible. I understand that bevels and compound miters are not possible, but the reality is the I have only made most of those degree cuts less than a dozen times in 10 years. I suspect that only one trade, like the finish or trim carpenter, is the guy we may not eliminate everything for. However most woodworkers, carpenters, cabinetmakers, and contractors would have the same liberating experience as Burt.

Anyone else? I am open to other points of view. I am embarking upon a new endeavor of demonstrating EZ System equipment and I want all the information I can muster.

Phil

Philphoto
07-12-2011, 01:29 PM
Phil,
One very important thing to me that you didn't mention is "ease of work". At this stage of the game I couldn't do what I do with a table saw.
Burt
If you read my last posting under the disabilities section in this forum, you would get my take on this. I am a cancer survivor - I had less than 20% chance of living to 5 years, and was labeled terminal -- so I was left with limited mobility and my left arm is nearly a decoration on my body. I could NEVER rip a sheet of plywood on my table saw, and that was never a pleasant experience anyway. I was getting more and more limited everyday, I took up the scroll saw, and woodcarving just to make certain I got to do some woodworking. When I saw the Rip Sizer in an advertising email, I knew I HAD to have one. After some investigating I saw the smart table. Hallelujah! I found a way to do woodworking again. I had stopped looking at EZ store, and forum because I could not do much, Now I feel totally empowered to do what I love, and contribute back to my family again.

So yes I agree -- Your point is no small point. BTW: As we get less capable of doing the physical work on a table saw, we become more risky, or dangerous to ourselves.

Phil

Randal Stevenson
07-12-2011, 02:31 PM
Burt

Did you keep a CMS for crown at the top of cabinets?

Phil,
Your arm is one reason why I think a CMS could still be kept. But for someone who has never had one, another option, that I have used for basic angles, is a sliding t bevel, and a protractor. I set it via the protractor, then mark my lines, clamp the track and saw. For something like decks, this has worked fine for me. As for cabinets (like Burt does), that all starts in the design phase. (you can design out a lot of angles)

Philphoto
07-12-2011, 02:55 PM
Randal:
I agree and your suggestion is what I have used the past.

One item to consider is the beginner. We always seem to argue that the advanced woodworker would have or use _______, and forget about those starting out or some point between beginner and advanced. Yes you and I have tools we need or want, but the EZ system allows new woodworker or homeowner to start somewhere reasonable, with wide capabilities, and opportunities to grow in skill level. The EZ System will give a wide range of capabilities to a newbie that may be out of reach otherwise.

Have I parted with my tools? Not yet. I know that day is coming. Right now I own some EZ stuff, but I do not have the EZ1 yet. Then at least the table saw is going out.

Phil

Burt
07-12-2011, 03:04 PM
Randal,

I do still use a cms to cut crown molding. I could do it on the EZ but to date have chosen not to. One Day we will get it right!


Burt

Burt
07-12-2011, 03:12 PM
Randal:
I agree and your suggestion is what I have used the past.

One item to consider is the beginner. We always seem to argue that the advanced woodworker would have or use _______, and forget about those starting out or some point between beginner and advanced. Yes you and I have tools we need or want, but the EZ system allows new woodworker or homeowner to start somewhere reasonable, with wide capabilities, and opportunities to grow in skill level. The EZ System will give a wide range of capabilities to a newbie that may be out of reach otherwise.

Have I parted with my tools? Not yet. I know that day is coming. Right now I own some EZ stuff, but I do not have the EZ1 yet. Then at least the table saw is going out.

Phil

Phil,

I'll never recommend to an experienced person that he sell all his tools and buy EZ. Instead, buy some of the EZ stuff and move the traditional stuff out as you become comfortable with the EZ. If you think it is best hold on to a few traditiional tools, do it. In my case for example, the SSRK is superior in most instances but occasionally I find a task that is easier and faster with a stock feeder. There is no reason not to use the best of all worlds.


Burt

toollovingschultz
07-12-2011, 05:15 PM
Phil ez can cut compound miters and bevels it is just limitted in that you dom't have the antichip ti line up with. Dino has a new base to solve this problem but is waiting until 2012 to introduce it. I use ez to cut bevels everyday even complicated compound miters on stair skirts. With a little time everything is ez. Like Burt I still use my mitersaw for some things like crown and some trim. My table saws are gone all 3. I don't have a ez one just a homemade power bench about 30 by 50 inches.
Andy

Randal Stevenson
07-12-2011, 09:25 PM
Andy,
For your complicated compound miters, do you use any sort of tool, as a reference block for future setups?

Thanks

toollovingschultz
07-12-2011, 11:13 PM
Andy,
For your complicated compound miters, do you use any sort of tool, as a reference block for future setups?

Thanks

Randall I find the angles with a starrett angle gauge I also have a digital one but prefer using the manual one no batteries and stays accurate then i mark it on the piece and set my saw up for the bevel. the moduni base on one of my saws has a homemade slot for miters that puts a 45 cut so that what you see at the antichip is the bottom of the cut. When Dino offers the adjustable slot moduni it will be even better.
Andy