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Goblu
11-05-2012, 03:42 PM
The post about safety reminded me about an impression I've had but wanted to check out. I've assumed that the rip sizer and ueg should not be used for cross-cutting wood. I assumed that would trap the wood in a way that would make it bind, etc. But I may be wrong and was curious about it.

I'm rennovating a house and have been gradually acquiring some used wood panel interior doors that I will need to cut shorter in order to fit, so a cross-cut. (Not till next spring, but I'm planning now). I know I could do them with a track and ez clamps but it made me wonder if it would be unsafe to do it with a ripping tool like the rip sizer or UEG. I assumed it would not be safe, but I don't fully understand the dead wood concept yet, so maybe not?

I remember somewhere reading that the ripsizer or ueg could fill in for the cabinet maker, but could not find the post. If I had the cabinet maker, I know I could use that, but that's on my wish list for later or maybe an adaptation of some sort.

sean9c
11-05-2012, 04:29 PM
Have to make sure to get the terms correct. If you're talking about the grain direction of wood ripping is cutting with the grain, crosscutting is cutting 90D to the grain.
If you're talking about EZ ripping is when your cut edge is parallel to your index edge, crosscutting is when your cut edge is adjacent (usually 90D) to your index edge.
You use the Ripsizer or UEG for ripping. For crosscutting you need the Square for your track. The Square will index on the adjacent edge. The Cabinetmaker is a sliding stop you can mount on your Square to allow you to make repeat cuts of the same width.

Burt
11-05-2012, 06:22 PM
The post about safety reminded me about an impression I've had but wanted to check out. I've assumed that the rip sizer and ueg should not be used for cross-cutting wood. I assumed that would trap the wood in a way that would make it bind, etc. But I may be wrong and was curious about it.

I'm rennovating a house and have been gradually acquiring some used wood panel interior doors that I will need to cut shorter in order to fit, so a cross-cut. (Not till next spring, but I'm planning now). I know I could do them with a track and ez clamps but it made me wonder if it would be unsafe to do it with a ripping tool like the rip sizer or UEG. I assumed it would not be safe, but I don't fully understand the dead wood concept yet, so maybe not?

I remember somewhere reading that the ripsizer or ueg could fill in for the cabinet maker, but could not find the post. If I had the cabinet maker, I know I could use that, but that's on my wish list for later or maybe an adaptation of some sort.


Most doors are in the 30" to 36" width range. A UEG or ripsizer can handle that task very well. Narrow boards would require some kind of work around and might prove to be dangerous.

- Just thinking out loud. If you were to set the EZ Track on the ripsizer at 90 degrees to a board (Fence) and slide the board to be cut under the ripsizer and against the fence you could safely cut the board. The fence and ripsizer both would need to be fastened in place. Should be easy to setup and use. A different setup would be required for each thickness of board. Again I am just thinking out loud - haven't tried this.


Burt

bumpnstump
11-05-2012, 07:13 PM
The post about safety reminded me about an impression I've had but wanted to check out. I've assumed that the rip sizer and ueg should not be used for cross-cutting wood. I assumed that would trap the wood in a way that would make it bind, etc. But I may be wrong and was curious about it.

I'm rennovating a house and have been gradually acquiring some used wood panel interior doors that I will need to cut shorter in order to fit, so a cross-cut. (Not till next spring, but I'm planning now). I know I could do them with a track and ez clamps but it made me wonder if it would be unsafe to do it with a ripping tool like the rip sizer or UEG. I assumed it would not be safe, but I don't fully understand the dead wood concept yet, so maybe not?

I remember somewhere reading that the ripsizer or ueg could fill in for the cabinet maker, but could not find the post. If I had the cabinet maker, I know I could use that, but that's on my wish list for later or maybe an adaptation of some sort.

Katy,
not really answering the question, but addressing the task (retrofit of doors into jambs):
-Whenever I've had to retrofit doors into jambs, whether it's new doors into new or old jambs; old doors into new or old jambs; etc., I always treat each door, and door jamb, on an individual basis.
In any given house, each door jamb is probably installed a bit differently than the other door jambs in the house. One might be installed w/one or both jambs bowed a bit; jambs might be twisted or out of plane (ie. all 4 corners not in the same plane); the jamb might be a trapezoid, or, parallelogram, or, something else.
Then, the doors could have their own issues, especially if they are re-claimed doors that someone 'modified'.
So, what I'd do is to begin matching the door to the existing jambs. In most cases, I'd choose the hinge side to start with: match the door hinge edge with the jamb hinge edge. Then, I'd match the header edge of the door to the top of the jamb. After that, make the latch sides match. Finally, adjust the bottom of the door.
Some doors need to have material shaved off of the edge to fit the jamb; other doors need to have material added onto in order to fill the jamb appropriately.
Anyway, I think you get the idea. In most retrofit situations, instead of using a straight edge, my most useful tool was my electric planer.
Not trying to talk you out of buying more EZ tools :D, just trying to give some perspective.
HTH,
Rick

Goblu
11-06-2012, 12:00 AM
Have to make sure to get the terms correct. If you're talking about the grain direction of wood ripping is cutting with the grain, crosscutting is cutting 90D to the grain.
If you're talking about EZ ripping is when your cut edge is parallel to your index edge, crosscutting is when your cut edge is adjacent (usually 90D) to your index edge.
You use the Ripsizer or UEG for ripping. For crosscutting you need the Square for your track. The Square will index on the adjacent edge. The Cabinetmaker is a sliding stop you can mount on your Square to allow you to make repeat cuts of the same width.

Thanks, Sean.

Is what you are saying is that grain direction is not part of the equation with EZ? Instead with EZ ripping you first make an index edge, and ripping and crosscutting are terms relative to that index edge. I know you can do both on the EZ one under the bridge. Plus angles. Deadwood concept.

I don't understand the cabinet maker (square/repeaters, etc) because I wasn't going to get one right away. Maybe in the future, though.

I was thinking about ripping (like on a tablesaw without a miter gauge) and crosscutting (like on a miter saw). Those have to do with grain direction and configurations of the tool. But with deadwood concept it's not the same, I guess. That's what I was trying to figure out.

Goblu
11-06-2012, 12:04 AM
Most doors are in the 30" to 36" width range. A UEG or ripsizer can handle that task very well. Narrow boards would require some kind of work around and might prove to be dangerous.

- Just thinking out loud. If you were to set the EZ Track on the ripsizer at 90 degrees to a board (Fence) and slide the board to be cut under the ripsizer and against the fence you could safely cut the board. The fence and ripsizer both would need to be fastened in place. Should be easy to setup and use. A different setup would be required for each thickness of board. Again I am just thinking out loud - haven't tried this.


Burt

Thank you, Burt. I think I get the picture and will play around with it when I do that job in the spring.

Goblu
11-06-2012, 12:25 AM
Katy,
not really answering the question, but addressing the task (retrofit of doors into jambs):
-Whenever I've had to retrofit doors into jambs, whether it's new doors into new or old jambs; old doors into new or old jambs; etc., I always treat each door, and door jamb, on an individual basis.
In any given house, each door jamb is probably installed a bit differently than the other door jambs in the house. One might be installed w/one or both jambs bowed a bit; jambs might be twisted or out of plane (ie. all 4 corners not in the same plane); the jamb might be a trapezoid, or, parallelogram, or, something else.
Then, the doors could have their own issues, especially if they are re-claimed doors that someone 'modified'.
So, what I'd do is to begin matching the door to the existing jambs. In most cases, I'd choose the hinge side to start with: match the door hinge edge with the jamb hinge edge. Then, I'd match the header edge of the door to the top of the jamb. After that, make the latch sides match. Finally, adjust the bottom of the door.
Some doors need to have material shaved off of the edge to fit the jamb; other doors need to have material added onto in order to fill the jamb appropriately.
Anyway, I think you get the idea. In most retrofit situations, instead of using a straight edge, my most useful tool was my electric planer.
Not trying to talk you out of buying more EZ tools :D, just trying to give some perspective.
HTH,
RickThank you, Rick. I did take a class where I learned some trim carpentry, and scribing, things like that, but I have not tried hanging doors like this. I know it's a more difficult job. But since I'm doing these DIY jobs almost exclusively with reclaimed materials it's always an adventure :rolleyes:. Figure out how to make do with what's available and collect a lot of reclaimed wood! Actually, these doors are more beautiful than new ones (and cheaper!) So, your instructions look very, very helpful. Also, the planer makes sense.

Instead of adding material to the doors, could you also build up the opening and use new trim? I will probably replace the trim anyway, since the present trim is not anything great. I suspect there was once nicer trim, but a previous owner put up cheap trim and some hollow core doors that are in horrible shape. I do have some nice reclaimed oak that I can use for trim. It's a slow process but fun.

bumpnstump
11-06-2012, 09:59 AM
Instead of adding material to the doors, could you also build up the opening and use new trim? I will probably replace the trim anyway, since the present trim is not anything great.

Katy, since you will be removing the trim anyway, in my mind, your job just got simpler.
When you get ready to hang a 'new' door, once the trim is down it becomes easier to remove the jamb, cut the door to square (if needed; here's where the EZ equip. will shine), modify the jamb to fit the door, install door into jamb, re-install the door/jamb as an assembly, re-trim, paint.
Rick

sean9c
11-06-2012, 02:46 PM
Unless you're in love with old doors just about every time I've looked at trying to save old doors and jambs by the time I factor in the cost and grief of refinishing the old stuff the cost of new prehungs seems pretty attractive

Goblu
11-06-2012, 05:57 PM
Unless you're in love with old doors just about every time I've looked at trying to save old doors and jambs by the time I factor in the cost and grief of refinishing the old stuff the cost of new prehungs seems pretty attractive

I get them for free or very cheap ($5 or $10). It may be a lot of grief, but I have more time than money, and I (often but not always) enjoy the challenge. It's a good way to learn. I am in love with old doors, too. I got some of the old glass handles for them.

I wouldn't do this with exterior doors, though, no matter how much I loved them. Interior ones don't need to be weather-tight.

At some point, I pull the plug if the job is way, way too hard. Next year when I do them, I'll let you all know how it goes. Maybe take some pictures if I remember and have a way to do it.

tmpullen
11-08-2012, 02:11 AM
If you are looking for a challenge this could be it. Typically I tell folks that it is best to be square, level, plumb and in plane... but that almost never happens. Depending on how fussy you are each door could take several hours and if the walls are not plumb you will have to make compromises or change the walls and that could add days.

Asses the opening first. ideally the walls will be plumb and of consistent thickness top to bottom, the jambs will be straight, plumb and square and the floors will be level. Ha, that was a good one, I actually made myself laugh.

Most people understand level and square but not everyone understands that the jambs can be out of plane with each other. To give you an idea of what I mean, lay a piece of paper on a flat surface. All of the points on the paper are on the same plane because it is flat. Now lift the lower left corner of the paper slightly off the surface. This represents a door opening that is out of plane.

You never know what you'll get, the left jamb may be plumb and the right jamb may not, or better yet they may both curve and have varing thickness along their length.

If you have to move jambs and trim you can add significantly to the complexity of the job. Adding structure means add drywall/plaster which means add paint and so on. If you remove structure will you have to add carpet? Move an outlet? On the other hand If all you need to do is move some hinges, shave a panel, move a striker and move a stop you may be better off. Because so much can be wrong with the opening I would advise you to make the door fit the jambs if at all possible.

As for cutting the bottom of the door I like to install the door with the bottom as long as possible (small opening below the door) then scribe the door to the floor then remove it and trim to the scribe line, if the floors are relatively flat then your scribe lines will be straight and you can use a track to trim them. If the floors are more challenging a planer will be your friend.

Anyway I rambled alot but this job sounds like a lot of fun, I am more than a little jealous. Good luck!

Goblu
11-12-2012, 11:44 PM
If you are looking for a challenge this could be it. Typically I tell folks that it is best to be square, level, plumb and in plane... but that almost never happens. Depending on how fussy you are each door could take several hours and if the walls are not plumb you will have to make compromises or change the walls and that could add days.

Asses the opening first. ideally the walls will be plumb and of consistent thickness top to bottom, the jambs will be straight, plumb and square and the floors will be level. Ha, that was a good one, I actually made myself laugh.

Most people understand level and square but not everyone understands that the jambs can be out of plane with each other. To give you an idea of what I mean, lay a piece of paper on a flat surface. All of the points on the paper are on the same plane because it is flat. Now lift the lower left corner of the paper slightly off the surface. This represents a door opening that is out of plane.

You never know what you'll get, the left jamb may be plumb and the right jamb may not, or better yet they may both curve and have varing thickness along their length.

If you have to move jambs and trim you can add significantly to the complexity of the job. Adding structure means add drywall/plaster which means add paint and so on. If you remove structure will you have to add carpet? Move an outlet? On the other hand If all you need to do is move some hinges, shave a panel, move a striker and move a stop you may be better off. Because so much can be wrong with the opening I would advise you to make the door fit the jambs if at all possible.

As for cutting the bottom of the door I like to install the door with the bottom as long as possible (small opening below the door) then scribe the door to the floor then remove it and trim to the scribe line, if the floors are relatively flat then your scribe lines will be straight and you can use a track to trim them. If the floors are more challenging a planer will be your friend.

Anyway I rambled alot but this job sounds like a lot of fun, I am more than a little jealous. Good luck! I enjoyed your description of level, plane, etc. Fun to think in three dimensions and visualize it. Much harder to get the actual wood, plaster, etc. to conform to this. Since this is a very old house, with later add ons, there are frequent "challenges." I always take a conservative approach first, see what will be the least work for the job. If all I have to do is move some hinges, shave a panel, move a striker, etc. I'll be happy. Very happy. Not to mention surprised. But it does happen sometimes. I like your description of scribing the bottom of the door.

Goblu
11-12-2012, 11:49 PM
Katy, since you will be removing the trim anyway, in my mind, your job just got simpler.
When you get ready to hang a 'new' door, once the trim is down it becomes easier to remove the jamb, cut the door to square (if needed; here's where the EZ equip. will shine), modify the jamb to fit the door, install door into jamb, re-install the door/jamb as an assembly, re-trim, paint.
RickInteresting approach, Rick, I would never have thought of it. I may experiment with it if I can't do it by just some planing, moving hinges, etc.