PDA

View Full Version : Man wins 1.5 Million in Table saw suit


Philphoto
03-10-2010, 12:22 AM
I just read this on another forum. I am always posting links to EZ Smart. This was posted and not a favorable comment from the members. Just a good idea why we like the EZ Smart system. Hope this is OK to post.
Phil


Man wins $1.5m in first of its kind saw case
"A Boston jury has awarded $1.5 million to a Malden man who injured his fingers on a saw while installing oak wood flooring several years ago in a first of its kind case that claimed the standard design of American table saws is defective.


Carlos Osorio accused One World Technologies Inc., maker of Ryobi saws, of negligence for failing to include a flesh detection technology that would prevent most serious injuries, according to a copy of the complaint filed in 2006 in US District Court in Boston.


After five surgeries and years of rehabilitation, two of Osorio’s fingers are permanently disfigured and unusable, and he has suffered numbness and loss of feeling in three other fingers.


“Hopefully, this means the industry is finally going to recognize that catastrophic injuries could be averted and they need to make this technology standard so people don’t have these senseless injuries,’’ said Richard J. Sullivan, one of the lawyers representing Osorio.


One World Technologies said it had been advised of the verdict.

“We are evaluating the results with our lawyers, and evaluating how to proceed,’’ said Jason Swanson, a spokesman for One World Technologies.


“Notwithstanding the outcome of this trial and any possible appeal, we remain confident that the saw which was the subject of this lawsuit was well-designed and manufactured with all due consideration for the needs and safety of the consumer.’’

Osorio’s case is one of more than 50 lawsuits pending throughout the United States against the major table saw manufacturers for failure to adopt the technology, which would stop a power saw blade almost instantly upon contact with human flesh.


During Osorio’s trial, an expert witness for the defense acknowledged that if the saw had the flesh detection technology, it would have created a 1/8-inch deep cut on one finger, Osorio’s lawyers said. Instead, Osorio suffered near-amputation of one finger and severe lacerations on four other fingers."


Industry takes:

http://www.finewoodworking.com/item/25130/man-wins-big-money-in-saw...

Now that riving knives finally are mainstream on American-made tablesaws, could SawStop's technology be far behind?


http://thewoodwhisperer.com/man-awarded-money-for-tablesaw-accident/

"Now if you ask me, this is up there with the McDonalds hot coffee incident. You guys know I am big on safety. I even created Woodworker’s Safety Week to raise awareness. But if you were a friend of mine and you cut your fingers on a standard tablesaw and tried to sue the company because they didin’t use “flesh-detecting technology”, I would probably smack you upside the head."

Randal Stevenson
03-10-2010, 03:58 AM
This subject has been locked, or disappeared on so many forums, do to it turning political. Unfortunately, that is inherent in this, since Gass has/is pushing for legislation to make his device required.

That said, the report leaves out several things (as well as the trial I would guess).
1. Did they bring in/interview the inventor of a saw guard that uses finger sensing tech, to shut off the saw?
2. Was a guard or push sticks, etc. even used?
3. Did the plaintiff, read the owners manual? Have any training?
4. Why didn't the plaintiff, use another tool? Did the plaintiff, not know about the Sawstop? How about a guided circular saw system?
5. What was the plaintiff doing at the time? Did he think he was doing something questionably safe?


That said, a lot of people have clamored about the amount of the judgement. But 5 surgeries (and at least part of them would be major), and years of rehab, in some states (due to releases, etc) the plaintiff would have to give up the judgement to cover the legal fee's and insurance and any left he could keep (nothing, I would say, knowing how expensive hospitals can be).

LarryS
03-10-2010, 11:29 AM
Saw Stop is going to make a lot of money.

Dino
03-10-2010, 11:43 AM
Phil,
Thanks for the update.

Randal,
What a tool has to with the actions of the inventor/maker of the saw?
The SawStop debates are nothing more than a self promoting event.
NOT for the inventor but for the "Non Sayers"

About your list...


1. Did they bring in/interview the inventor of a saw guard that uses finger sensing tech, to shut off the saw?
why not?

2. Was a guard or push sticks, etc. even used?
Even if guards and push sticks was used...the design of the tool is
very dangerous. ( UNSAFE)

3. Did the plaintiff, read the owners manual? Have any training?
How many books someone has to read to use a tablesaw safe?
how many year of training? I saw people with 30-40 years behind the tablesaw and they lost fingers few days before retirement.

4. Why didn't the plaintiff, use another tool? Did the plaintiff, not know about the Sawstop? How about a guided circular saw system?
He can't bring the sawstop to the work place and he saw others using the
same tool without accidents. TV shows? Magazines?

Here is a good one.How about a guided circular saw system? because the guided systems are not capable
for narrow/tapered cuts... ( let's leave ez out of it)

5. What was the plaintiff doing at the time? Did he think he was doing something questionably safe?

The job has to get done and the cut looks easy and safe.
After all, the forums, magazines, stores tv shows and tablesaw manufactures are in total control.$$$$$$.

Dino
03-10-2010, 12:38 PM
How about...
for the 30.000th to 60.000th time one more man looses few fingers?
where is the defense now?:confused:

Randal Stevenson
03-10-2010, 02:06 PM
This subject has been locked, or disappeared on so many forums, do to it turning political. Unfortunately, that is inherent in this, since Gass has/is pushing for legislation to make his device required.

That said, the report leaves out several things (as well as the trial I would guess).
1. Did they bring in/interview the inventor of a saw guard that uses finger sensing tech, to shut off the saw?
2. Was a guard or push sticks, etc. even used?
3. Did the plaintiff, read the owners manual? Have any training?
4. Why didn't the plaintiff, use another tool? Did the plaintiff, not know about the Sawstop? How about a guided circular saw system?
5. What was the plaintiff doing at the time? Did he think he was doing something questionably safe?


That said, a lot of people have clamored about the amount of the judgement. But 5 surgeries (and at least part of them would be major), and years of rehab, in some states (due to releases, etc) the plaintiff would have to give up the judgement to cover the legal fee's and insurance and any left he could keep (nothing, I would say, knowing how expensive hospitals can be).

Phil,
Thanks for the update.

Randal,
What a tool has to with the actions of the inventor/maker of the saw?
The SawStop debates are nothing more than a self promoting event.
NOT for the inventor but for the "Non Sayers"

About your list...

[/B]

Please quote outside of the comments by, as it is easier to reply to.

1. Why not? My point exactly. Just showing there ARE other options and even with the Sawstop, you still have the issue of kickback and it should really have either a adjustable fence, like the Uni (stops half way in the blade for ripping) or a crown, besides the riving knife and guard.
2. I agree the thing still has safety issues, but then again, I believe using a circular saw, IN THE AIR like you have, has safety issues as well. There is no way to eliminate all issues, because humans are involved (the problem with designing something idiot proof, is you underestimate the ingenuity of complete idiots, paraphrased, Douglas Adams). This comment, involves a legal concept of mitigating the damages.
3. Nothing will help with carelessness. But someone who has NEVER read or been around/taught any idea of shop safety, is more prone to accidents then someone who has a basic understanding of the tool functions. When one doesn't have an idea, that wood can have defects in it, one tends to go blindly in.
Even Push sticks and idea's like the OJJ (Seamus's design), help to keep ones hands further back.

As for "What a tool has to with the actions of the inventor/maker of the saw?"

As the inventor of the EZ, have you gone to your local lawmakers and pushed to get the EZ mandated as a legal necessity, the way Sawstop has (where he gets paid both ways?). That is what the tool and actions have to do, and where the discussion falls into the political bs.

Dino
03-10-2010, 02:37 PM
Randal,
Cutting on the air with the wood clamped to the rail and using gravity as a feeder..is lot more safer than making the same cut in the tablesaw.
BTW that was a tapered cut on a narrow piece of wood.:rolleyes:

I never look for the actions and religion of any toolmaker
I look at the tool and only the tool.

sawstop is the best tablesaw invention in the last 50+ years. PERIOD.
The ez on the other hand is the best woodworking "system" but who cares?
We need a tablesaw to prove our manhood...:rolleyes:
Remember the Sears Commercial

A guy with a sigar and beer.. a sexy lady on bikini.... and the tablesaw.
What a man needs? Or what else do you want?
I don't remember the exact words and I have to visit my doctor....:eek:

Gabe O
03-10-2010, 10:42 PM
What is this country coming to. This idiot should not receive any award $ in my opinion. Everybody sues for everything. Just recently a family here in MT won a case against Louiville Slugger because thier son died in a Legion b-ball game. Total BS! People need to be accountable for their own actions. Everybody knows tools are dangerous, especially the tablesaw.

Gabe O
03-10-2010, 10:45 PM
Randal,
Cutting on the air with the wood clamped to the rail and using gravity as a
We need a tablesaw to prove our manhood...:rolleyes:
Remember the Sears Commercial

A guy with a sigar and beer.. a sexy lady on bikini.... and the tablesaw.
What a man needs? Or what else do you want?
I don't remember the exact words and I have to visit my doctor....:eek:

Maybe that would help EZ sell more tools. Advertise with half naked ladies;)

Gabe

Randal Stevenson
03-11-2010, 01:36 AM
Randal,
Cutting on the air with the wood clamped to the rail and using gravity as a feeder..is lot more safer than making the same cut in the tablesaw.
BTW that was a tapered cut on a narrow piece of wood.

While I agree, cutting with the wood clamped to the guide is a lot safer, It just reminds me of the words you told me. "Use the proper support surface":p


I never look for the actions and religion of any toolmaker
I look at the tool and only the tool.

sawstop is the best tablesaw invention in the last 50+ years. PERIOD.
The ez on the other hand is the best woodworking "system" but who cares?
We need a tablesaw to prove our manhood...

Your among the few that don't look at the actions of, in particular, that manufacturer. It is unfortunate that it has fallen political so many times, because some of us, use the shop and forums to relax. The fact that so many of us, have used tablesaws, and no longer due, is in part because you don't shove it down our throats, but you try to get us to play around with it, to see what it can do.


I don't remember the exact words and I have to visit my doctor....
Hopefully you come out fine!:)

What is this country coming to. This idiot should not receive any award $ in my opinion. Everybody sues for everything. Just recently a family here in MT won a case against Louiville Slugger because thier son died in a Legion b-ball game. Total BS! People need to be accountable for their own actions. Everybody knows tools are dangerous, especially the tablesaw.

Seems like it isn't JUST the people suing, but our Juries are going in uninformed about THEIR rights, particularly Jury nullification. Unfortunately, common sense is one of the biggest oxymorons, societal values are becoming questionable and the people who know about Jury nullification, normally get kicked off of jury's.

Maybe that would help EZ sell more tools. Advertise with half naked ladies;)

Gabe

Why half?:p

I can see Dino demonstrating at the Playboy mansion.

Can only have four images, so the quoted ones had to be removed.

Philphoto
03-12-2010, 05:54 AM
I wasn't trying to stir up the poo poo. I wanted to point out that no matter what the EZ Smart is better. Wish I had more $$$ I would invest in more EZ gear.

This whole issue reminded me of my favorite illustration. I have watched a number of professional herpetologists handle a wide variety of snakes. Sooner or later they ALL get bitten. He can teach you the safe way to handle snakes, and you can have on all the safe snake gear. HOWEVER! Handling snakes will always be an unsafe activity. There is no way around it. Like trying to ride the wild tiger. You can think of all the safety protection practices, gear, and even feed the tiger until he can not hold another bite and sooner or later the Tiger will get hungry again.

Saw Stop is good, riving knives are good, guards are good, but no matter what a spinning sharp blade is not a good idea.

Thanks for the opportunity to join this forum.
Phil B.

Randal Stevenson
03-12-2010, 02:09 PM
Wish I had more $$$ I would invest in more EZ gear.

Phil B.

While a lot of us would like more, I think several of us have learned, we keep going back to the basics.

staceyw
03-12-2010, 06:51 PM
When robotic micro-bots replace all saws, then everyone will sue everyone saying "why did you not think of micro-bots before now?". It is a "circular" argument that could go on forever.

onsas
04-16-2010, 09:20 AM
Yes, Saw Stop table saw (http://www.lgwheelloader.com/10-inch-sliding-table-saws.html) company is going to make a lot of money.

Bob F.
04-16-2010, 02:37 PM
I remember when I was first searching for a table saw how dangerous I new that the table saw could be, every time I looked at a table saw I never had a feeling that it could be safe to operate.

I'm really glad that I happened to discover Dino and his safe and EZ way of working with wood and other materials to cut.

Bob F.