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Mad Mac
12-31-2014, 04:50 PM
Is anyone using led lighting in their shop. I currently have old florescent ceiling mounted lights but was thinking about replacing them.

bumpnstump
12-31-2014, 06:21 PM
Is anyone using led lighting in their shop. I currently have old florescent ceiling mounted lights but was thinking about replacing them.

Currently, I am using the T8 fluorescents in my shop, which give good lighting. I may switch over to these:

https://www.ledwaves.com/Fluorescent-Replacement/

I have a couple of the Genesys version in my house (in neutral white), and they pump out some nice light.

Or, I might go with these:

https://www.ledwaves.com/PR15-Round-LED-Recessed-Light-6-inch.html in neutral white.

I've put a bunch of these recessed lights in my house, and like them lots. (By the time I finish the long-term remodel, I'll have used 50+ of them.)

The LED Waves outfit has been great to deal with; they're currently running a year-end sale. I usually call them instead of ordering online, and they are 'prone' to giving me a bit better-than-advertised deal; plus, customer service has been consistently awesome.

Rick

sean9c
01-01-2015, 02:03 PM
I'm currently doing the same thing but from 8ft T12 bulbs. Trying to decide if I go to T8 or LED. Can go to 8ft T8 for about $60/fixture including bulbs. LED is considerably more expensive.
Found out the other day that T12 bulbs just went out of production.
Also looking at BR30 bulbs for a bunch of can lights, tried flourescent but they stink. Just bought one LED to try. It's a 9w appears to be about as bright as my 65w incandescent bulbs when looking at the light but doesn't seem to throw as much light. I might look for a slightly higher wattage LED to try.

philb
01-01-2015, 04:47 PM
The way to illuminate with LED luminaires is to buy lamps by rated lumens (brightness).

The old way of buying was by watts (energy consumed). Since LED uses so little energy and lasts so long there was a better way of rating the usable light -- lumens.

You used to buy
40 W now you buy 450 lm
60W now you buy 800 lm
75W now you buy 1100 lm
100W now you buy 1600 lm
150W now you buy 2600 lm

Phillips Corp has quite an extensive certification and consumer awareness training program, if you are interested. I am a trained electrician, so I have an interest, even though I am disabled, still interested.

tomp913
01-01-2015, 07:05 PM
I have (2) rows of double 8' fluorescent lights in the ceiling of my 24' x 24' garage, 8 fixtures per row. A friend installed these LED lights from Lowes in his shop and recommended that I replace the fluorescents - http://http://www.lowes.com/pd_595690-43921-MXL307-LED22K840_0__?productId=50279787 Lowes had them on sale right before Christmas for $34.98 instead of (I think) $79. The price still shows at $34.98 on their web site so it looks as if that price is still good.

At 1400 lumens, each fixture is about equivalent to a 100 W bulb then so I'm hoping that will give me plenty of light - the ceiling is 9' so there should be plenty of coverage. Plus I won't have to put up with the buzzing in cold weather or need to blow the sawdust off the bulbs every couple of months. I'm hanging and painting new doors in the laundry room right now so that will probably be the next project, assuming that my wife gives me some time off her list (maybe I'll forget to order the floor tiles and have some downtime until they come in).

Tom

Mad Mac
01-02-2015, 10:29 AM
Thanks for all the replies. I think I'm going to go the way of tomp913. Saw the lights at Lowe's yesterday and the are reasonably priced for me.

Dik Harrison
01-02-2015, 12:29 PM
Man Mac,

Thanks for posting the question, I learned about some products I was previously unaware of, and think that the fixture from Lowe's will be perfect for my pantry renovation project.

sean9c
01-02-2015, 02:26 PM
Looked up the Lowes LED fixture. It's a 14" square light putting out 1400 lumens. An 8ft 2 tube flourescent puts out about 8500 lumens. So about 6 times the lumens. If you're looking at getting about the same light output that'd take a whole lot of LED fixtures, 96 fixtures to replace 16 8ft flourescent. Sounds expensive and a lot of work.
Instead you might look at LED tube lights, basically a flourescent light with LED tubes. A 4ft 2 tube puts out about 6000 lumens and is $75. So 2 of these puts out way more light than 8ft flourescent. You could replace your 128ft of flourescents with 88 ft of LED. Still expensive but about 1/2 of the cost of the square fixture.



I have (2) rows of double 8' fluorescent lights in the ceiling of my 24' x 24' garage, 8 fixtures per row. A friend installed these LED lights from Lowes in his shop and recommended that I replace the fluorescents - http://http://www.lowes.com/pd_595690-43921-MXL307-LED22K840_0__?productId=50279787 Lowes had them on sale right before Christmas for $34.98 instead of (I think) $79. The price still shows at $34.98 on their web site so it looks as if that price is still good.

At 1400 lumens, each fixture is about equivalent to a 100 W bulb then so I'm hoping that will give me plenty of light - the ceiling is 9' so there should be plenty of coverage. Plus I won't have to put up with the buzzing in cold weather or need to blow the sawdust off the bulbs every couple of months. I'm hanging and painting new doors in the laundry room right now so that will probably be the next project, assuming that my wife gives me some time off her list (maybe I'll forget to order the floor tiles and have some downtime until they come in).

Tom

bumpnstump
01-02-2015, 03:20 PM
Looked up the Lowes LED fixture. It's a 14" square light putting out 1400 lumens. An 8ft 2 tube flourescent puts out about 8500 lumens. So about 6 times the lumens. If you're looking at getting about the same light output that'd take a whole lot of LED fixtures, 96 fixtures to replace 16 8ft flourescent. Sounds expensive and a lot of work.
Instead you might look at LED tube lights, basically a flourescent light with LED tubes. A 4ft 2 tube puts out about 6000 lumens and is $75. So 2 of these puts out way more light than 8ft flourescent. You could replace your 128ft of flourescents with 88 ft of LED. Still expensive but about 1/2 of the cost of the square fixture.

Good catch on the math, Sean. The other thing I like about the LED T8 replacement tubes has to do w/the hook-up/install. Depending on the LED tube, you'll probably need to disconnect the ballast on the existing fluorescent fixture and do a bit of rewire (if you're doing a fluorescent-to-LED swap). When I was redoing my guest bath, I was looking for a clean-line effect, and I wanted to use LEDs. I wanted a fair amount of light over the lavatory sink, so decided to use an LED T8 replacement, recessed into the ceiling (see the pics). To hook up the low-voltage power supply to the LED tube, I went to the box store, bought a couple of the T8 connector ends from the electrical dept. (less than $5 for both ends), mounted the connector ends to a couple of short pieces of aluminum "L", and screwed the "L"s into the ceiling of the recessed light bay. Hooked up the low voltage wires to the proper end of the tube, inserted the tube, viola!.... light.

Pics don't show it as good as it actually is, but the single LED tube behind the plastic diffuser puts out plenty of light. When they say that the light output from one LED T8 replacement tube equals at least the light output from 2 standard T8 fluorescent tubes, I believe 'em.
ymmv,
Rick

tomp913
01-02-2015, 04:22 PM
Maybe I should have looked into these a little deeper, but went on my buddy's recommendations - plus I was looking at the fluorescent light I just put in the laundry room (23W CFL) which really lights up the room. He put the LED's in his shop and says that he's got good lighting - I'm planning to stop by next week so will check it out. I have 2 rows of 8' two tube fixtures in the shop ceiling, the rows are 6' from each wall and so 8' on centers, with the lights in each row on 4' centers. The rows are on separate circuits so I can swap out just one side and see how I like it - if it doesn't work out, I can use those four for the family room remodel (replacing recessed fixtures) and return the unused four units to Lowes.

I looked briefly at converting the existing fixtures to LED which doesn't seem like that big a deal, but swallowed a little at the cost of the 8' bulbs - 16 of them add up to a sizeable chunk of money. It almost looks as if I'd be better off switching over to 4' fixtures as the difference in the bulb cost would pay for it. The only thing I'd be concerned about is loss of coverage - the ends of the bulbs are now only 4' from the end walls and 4' between the fixture ends in the center of the room, I'd lose a bit of that by switching over to the 4' lights, unless I add a row in the middle (which means going up in the attic and burrowing in 14" of blown in insulation to run the additional wires).

More things to think about it.

Thanks for the input,

Tom

tomp913
01-02-2015, 04:30 PM
Pics don't show it as good as it actually is, but the single LED tube behind the plastic diffuser puts out plenty of light. When they say that the light output from one LED T8 replacement tube equals at least the light output from 2 standard T8 fluorescent tubes, I believe 'em.
ymmv,
Rick

Rick,

Nice bathroom. I can't tell from the photo, but is the tile backsplash enclosed in a "frame" so that the ends of the tiles don't show? I've done that in the past - glued strips of laminate to match the countertop to a strip of plywood of the appropriate size, with the laminate overhanging the plywood by the thickness of the tile. After grouting, this makes a very clean install.

Tom

sean9c
01-02-2015, 05:35 PM
Like the floating vanity, just did one on a bath for my nephew. Cool look but more places for dust bunnies to hide.

Good catch on the math, Sean. The other thing I like about the LED T8 replacement tubes has to do w/the hook-up/install. Depending on the LED tube, you'll probably need to disconnect the ballast on the existing fluorescent fixture and do a bit of rewire (if you're doing a fluorescent-to-LED swap). When I was redoing my guest bath, I was looking for a clean-line effect, and I wanted to use LEDs. I wanted a fair amount of light over the lavatory sink, so decided to use an LED T8 replacement, recessed into the ceiling (see the pics). To hook up the low-voltage power supply to the LED tube, I went to the box store, bought a couple of the T8 connector ends from the electrical dept. (less than $5 for both ends), mounted the connector ends to a couple of short pieces of aluminum "L", and screwed the "L"s into the ceiling of the recessed light bay. Hooked up the low voltage wires to the proper end of the tube, inserted the tube, viola!.... light.

Pics don't show it as good as it actually is, but the single LED tube behind the plastic diffuser puts out plenty of light. When they say that the light output from one LED T8 replacement tube equals at least the light output from 2 standard T8 fluorescent tubes, I believe 'em.
ymmv,
Rick

sean9c
01-02-2015, 05:47 PM
You mentioned that 1 t8 led as bright as 2 t8 flourescent. That got me looking. If you just compare lumens you have to go to a pretty fancy (expensive) led to get the same lumens as a flourescent. A lot of led replacements are lower lumens than a t8.
I've also found this to be true in my hunt for par 30 replacements
LED's are expensive, a lot of folks making money on this deal
Can't we just go back to the old days, when a light bulb was just a light bulb

Good catch on the math, Sean. The other thing I like about the LED T8 replacement tubes has to do w/the hook-up/install. Depending on the LED tube, you'll probably need to disconnect the ballast on the existing fluorescent fixture and do a bit of rewire (if you're doing a fluorescent-to-LED swap). When I was redoing my guest bath, I was looking for a clean-line effect, and I wanted to use LEDs. I wanted a fair amount of light over the lavatory sink, so decided to use an LED T8 replacement, recessed into the ceiling (see the pics). To hook up the low-voltage power supply to the LED tube, I went to the box store, bought a couple of the T8 connector ends from the electrical dept. (less than $5 for both ends), mounted the connector ends to a couple of short pieces of aluminum "L", and screwed the "L"s into the ceiling of the recessed light bay. Hooked up the low voltage wires to the proper end of the tube, inserted the tube, viola!.... light.

Pics don't show it as good as it actually is, but the single LED tube behind the plastic diffuser puts out plenty of light. When they say that the light output from one LED T8 replacement tube equals at least the light output from 2 standard T8 fluorescent tubes, I believe 'em.
ymmv,
Rick

bumpnstump
01-02-2015, 07:29 PM
Rick,

Nice bathroom. I can't tell from the photo, but is the tile backsplash enclosed in a "frame" so that the ends of the tiles don't show? I've done that in the past - glued strips of laminate to match the countertop to a strip of plywood of the appropriate size, with the laminate overhanging the plywood by the thickness of the tile. After grouting, this makes a very clean install.

Tom

Tom, I sent you a pm, so as to not hijack this thread.
Rick

bumpnstump
01-02-2015, 07:34 PM
You mentioned that 1 t8 led as bright as 2 t8 flourescent. That got me looking. If you just compare lumens you have to go to a pretty fancy (expensive) led to get the same lumens as a flourescent. A lot of led replacements are lower lumens than a t8.
I've also found this to be true in my hunt for par 30 replacements
LED's are expensive, a lot of folks making money on this deal
Can't we just go back to the old days, when a light bulb was just a light bulb

Agreed; I think folks will just have to do a bit of experimentation to find what will work for them, unfortunately (gets pricey).
Rick
ps re. 'dust bunnies' in the earlier thread: last year, when I had the ceiling down in the main part of the house, I installed a central vac system- 'dust bunnies' don't stand a chance........ lol..... :eek:

marc82much
01-02-2015, 08:10 PM
Can't we just go back to the old days, when a light bulb was just a light bulb

In short, no. We're not going back to vinyl, VCRs, or incandescent light bulbs.

As for all the lumen output for X vs. LEDs...don't forget that LEDs broadcast all their light in about 120 degrees, not 360 like fluorescent tubes. Even more important than lumens is the light actually landing on the work surface. I took a measure on a desk in an elementary school before I pulled all the T12s and replaced them with LED tubes from Emium. Foot candles on the desk went from 50 to 75. No hum, flicker or mercury. Much better color. Reduced energy use and maintenance. Plus I made money. Big win for everyone!

Jeff Freelove
01-04-2015, 09:33 AM
Marc,

I am finishing out an 750 sf shop with 10 foot ceiling. It's wired for two rows of quad T8s in 8 foot fixtures. Figuring I need 7 fixtures from the big box for $50-80 each.

What do you suggest as far as LED fixtures and bulbs?

marc82much
01-04-2015, 03:45 PM
I think that arrangement would be very nice in your shop. I would just get LED tubes instead of fluorescent and re-wire the fixtures to accept them. You can get good tubes at emium.com. This is what I use...
http://www.emium.com/pdf/interior/Tube.pdf

sean9c
01-04-2015, 11:23 PM
LED's look cool. All I'm going is reading the specs on 4ft t8 flourescent bulbs and t8 LED bulbs.
Flourescent bulbs are under $4ea and last 20k hrs and put out about 2500lumens
LED bulbs are about $22ea and last 45k hrs and put out about 1250 lumens.

Not sure how switching to LED's pencils out.

Marc,

I am finishing out an 750 sf shop with 10 foot ceiling. It's wired for two rows of quad T8s in 8 foot fixtures. Figuring I need 7 fixtures from the big box for $50-80 each.

What do you suggest as far as LED fixtures and bulbs?

tomp913
01-05-2015, 12:39 AM
I think that arrangement would be very nice in your shop. I would just get LED tubes instead of fluorescent and re-wire the fixtures to accept them. You can get good tubes at emium.com. This is what I use...
http://www.emium.com/pdf/interior/Tube.pdf

I currently have 4 rows of (2) two-tube 8' Fluorescent fixtures. Doing a quick search, I came up with the following http://http://www.ledliquidatorsinc.com/led-t8-fluorescent-tube-8-ft.html Based on the 25 minimum quantity, it's going to cost $1000 plus the cost of converting the existing fixtures to LED. I think I'm going to hang one row of the fixtures I posted before and see what kind of lighting I wind up with. Even if I have to put in an additional 4 fixtures, it looks like I'm going to be way ahead of the game - even with the work needed to run the extra wiring and move where the lights are installed in comparison to the fluorescents. With the additional 4 fixtures, and based on the 24 x 24' room, I wind up with about 30 lumens/ft^2 which is supposedly on the low side of what's recommended. May not be as bad as it sounds as I've got cabinets along the edges so will put the rows closer to the middle so I get overlap - guess I'll just have to do it and see what happens.

Tom