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-   -   32 MM System? (http://tracksawforum.com/showthread.php?t=4841)

danext61 05-26-2017 05:28 AM

32 MM System?
 
Looking forward in putting together a frameless kitchen (no face frame) and I hope to hear from experts in the field. Does 32 system can be implemented with EZ One as a template, on the saw track or other extrusions? I'm new with both, EZ One as well as this, 32 mm increment concept.

Absinthe 05-26-2017 10:38 AM

I have been doing 32 mm stuff, but I use the track system mostly for cutting my panels. I do not yet use the SSRK at all but I assume it can be used to do indexed system holes, but as it is, I am not sure how convenient it would be. So far, they don't have an equivalent to Festool's LR32, though there was a fellow that was trying to make something for that.

There are, some good and bad line boring templates and systems on the market for such things. I can speak more of them if you are interested.

As for making your carcases you will find EZ Smart stuff pretty good once you get used to it. But that is for anything, I assume.

Where are you in the planning phase?

bumpnstump 05-26-2017 11:01 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by danext61 (Post 38899)
Looking forward in putting together a frameless kitchen (no face frame) and I hope to hear from experts in the field. Does 32 system can be implemented with EZ One as a template, on the saw track or other extrusions? I'm new with both, EZ One as well as this, 32 mm increment concept.

Dan,
here are a couple of potentially helpful links:

Nice setup from a Festool user who utilized the Elfa shelf standards to make a 32 mm drilling system. One could adapt his approach for the EZ system:

http://festoolownersgroup.com/festoo...eapo-diy-lr32/

If you'd rather buy a premade template, here is one:

https://www.cabinethardware.com/Euro...g-p/482708.htm

I did my whole house in Euro style. I wasn't worried about metric vs imperial, so just used a simple/inexpensive 2" spacing template for 1/4" shelf pins. Works as well as any 32mm system.
HTH,
Rick

Absinthe 05-26-2017 02:14 PM

For shelf pin jigs that knock off the indexing of the LR32 this kid kills it!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OV1V6GqnoVs&t=218s

I am considering this fellow's design, however, since it seems quickest to use.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SlmFH7M52ZY

On the other hand, if a router base plate has a 5 mm indexing pin in line with the center of the router bit and 32mm oc from it, with a rail such as EZ Smart (ore pretty much any straight edge), one could easily index an infinite number of holes 32mm apart by placing the pin into the previous hole. I am considering making a base plate to try this. Perhaps using a nylon detentes of a sort so as not to scratch the wood from hole to hole.

Currently I am using both the Rockler and Euro Limited templates. I have used and returned the Kreg one, as it simply doesn't cut as many holes at a time and is a bit tweaky to use. I have looked at, but not purchased the Woodhaven one, though I like that it has a long 800 mm one. If you are going to use a drill instead of a router, Euro Limited has the best ones in my opinion. I am currently working with them to get some corrections to their jig, as the one I have definitely doesn't cut the holes in a straight line and there makes indexing additional holes a bit challenging. Nice thing about it is, that if you flip it over it has the template for assembly dowel holes too.

The rockler is nice since it comes with a bit (not as nice as the Euro Limited) and storage compartments for the bit and hex key. Very simple to use and simply slides along to reindex for longer runs.

In absence of a line borer or a CNC I think the plunge router is the next best tool followed by the drill. Critical to me is getting the first hole (46,5 mm). Once that hole is in place I would like to just cut-cut-cut.

Tracedfar 05-27-2017 08:55 PM

I've seen a few of this kid's videos. He seems like some kind of "Tony Stark" of woodworking. How did he score that huge Festool arsenal? When I was his age barely had enough money for gas for my aging Chevelle.

The other guy seems fairly innovative I his own right.

I have a Kreg shelf pin jig, as well as, their 32mm hinge jig. For the price and small jobs, they're​ fast and the shelf pin jig is handy for pieces that are already assembled. I have the drawer slide jigs, too, but don't find them as helpful or necessary. If I have to replace the Kreg stuff I may go another way.

Like you, I think a router makes a cleaner cut and if I wanted to seriously increase my output, I'd find a deal on a used line boring machine on eBay or Craigslist.

I think using EZ components to make a 32mm system is very doable. Like theirs, a rail could be drilled with indexing holes and​ a corresponding indexing pin added to base of the SSRK. It would be a lot less expensive than the green stuff and more durable than plywood.

Heck, why not? I've just about talked myself I to it!

Absinthe 05-27-2017 10:28 PM

There is a drill press trick that involves setting a "pin" 32 mm from the bit along a fence. So once you have drilled the first hole you can drill any length of holes the same distance apart. I think there should be a reasonable way of applying that to a router base. Just need a detentes perhaps a ball catch, or an embedded airsoft pellet or something.

If you are using the 32 mm system, I see no purpose in the drawer slide jig, since you should be using your system holes to place the hardware.

The cup drilling jig, works much better if you are sucking up the the curls while you do it. Otherwise it clogs. (Figured that out the other night.)

When I did a 768mm cabinet I had to move that kreg jig so many times to get all the holes in the panel I was ready to throw it across the room. The rockler beats that one for ease of use and convenience of including the drill bit. However, the Euro Limited carbide drill bit makes a beautifully clean hole, worth every penny. They sell the bit and the holder separately. but they self center in a 10mm hole (3/8) which is pretty standard as far as these templates go.

I think I was seeing the used 6 and 13 head line boring machines going between 600 and 1000. But you are certainly buying someone else's problems with one of those machines. And if you think one router bit is expensive.... :)

The way I understand the SSRK they have stops. So if you have a spacer. you set your first position make your hole. Move the stop against the base, loosen the other stop. Then put your spacer against the base and move the stopper against it. Then move the base. Make a hole... lather rinse repeat. But I don't have an ssrk to play with, if I did maybe I could be more accurate... But I don't have an extra 300 to do it myself.

I would like to take a look at the woodhaven jig, being that is 800 mm it should easily do whole panels in one setting.

The kid likely has some sponsors. Once you are doing a reasonable number of hits on youtube there is money to be made. But hey, I think I was cooking for money when I was his age... though I am not sure how young he is.

Tracedfar 05-28-2017 09:44 PM

Ha! I can picture the little Kreg jig flying. Yeah, for small a small job like a bathroom vanity, 10-12 linear feet of cabinets, I'm happy with the smaller Kreg jigs (shelf pin, hinge, K4, etc.)

Last winter, I built 27 linear feet of face frame Shaker style (uppers and lowers) and a 7 ft. island. I'll never do another job that big with those tools. Since I mostly work solo, I'm not likely to take on another job that big by myself anyway.

Last year my biggest indoor jobs were a large kitchen, small kitchen, a couple of bathrooms, and a large built in. That's just not enough to justify dedicated power tools for shelf pins and such.

I did look long and hard at the Woodpecker shelf pin jig. More expensive than others mentioned but it is made of aircraft aluminum. For me, the Kreg was just too inexpensive to pass up. Another concern, lifting and resetting a router versus just sliding it along a rail from one indexed hole to the next. But after a few hundred times it all gets old.

I have the SSRK. It wouldn't be hard to modify it and a guide rail to work like Festool's 32mm system.

I also have a Mpower CRB7 router base. I prefer it for off rail work, and it already has place for a pin and a fence.

kenk 05-28-2017 10:44 PM

OK, so I'm looking at the SSRK and can imagine the following two attachments that would facilitate 32 mm spacing: An ACE-rail that provides the 32 mm spacing, and an SSRK attachment that fixes the X position of the SSRK along a guide rail.

I picture a flat aluminum or steel (for durability?) rail that would slide into the same guide rail slot used by the Anti-Chip Edge and would somehow fasten to the rail so it lies basically in the same position as the ACE and won't slide up and down the guide rail. This ACE-rail would have holes spaced 32 mm apart. Of course this provides the spacing between shelf pin holes.

The aluminum extrusion on top of the SSRK rail slider is the T-Track extrusion. The "overhang" part of the T-Track extrusion is used to tighten the Y direction rail, which leaves the main T-Track groove available to mount something - a something that would fasten the rail slider to the ACE-rail holes so it doesn't move while drilling the shelf pin holes, but allow it to easily slide to the next ACE-rail hole.

Boy, this is hard to explain, but I picture an attachment that slides and fastens into the T-Track groove. The part of the attachment that remains outside of the groove extends over the ACE-rail.

The end of that part would have a flat springy piece that rides on top of the ACE-rail which has a steel post that would insert into one of the ACE-rail holes and fasten the SSRK into an X direction position. You'd use a plunge router to drill a shelf pin hole. When ready to move to the next hole 32 mm up or down the rail you lift up on end of the flat springy piece to release the pin from the hole, slide, and let go so the steel pin drops down into the next ACE-rail hole. Push the plunge router down to drill the next shelf pin hole ... and continue.

It would seem best to have the ACE-rail on side of the guide rail opposite the router - so the router could slide as close to the guide rail as possible.

Does this make sense??

Ken K.

kenk 05-28-2017 11:14 PM

1 Attachment(s)
Here is my attempt at a diagram of the 32 mm Shelf Pin Jig. This is my first try at a picture, so here it goes ....

Tracedfar 05-29-2017 12:58 AM

Why not forego any attachments and drill holes into the guide rail itself? They're small enough to not compromise the strength of the rail. Making your own attachment might be less expensive but having one guide rail for both​ cutting and drilling/routing seems to fit with the practicality of the SSRK.

Also, took a look at my Kreg shelf pin jig. They are designed so that two or more can be locked together doubling (or more) the capacity.


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