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  #31  
Old 10-16-2015, 11:55 AM
TooManyToys TooManyToys is offline
 
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Not the best example of Mafell products.

The KSS 400 like the MT 55 are heavy saws to use for trim work freehand, and I'm not sure he used the flat side of the trim for every cut. If a Mafell dedicated user is doing trim they are going to use the KSS 300 and P1cc for their work, and Tom Gensmer, who contributed a lot to this brand years ago, got Collins Tool to make make their coping foot for the P1cc which makes it a great coping tool.

The KSS 400 is tailored more towards decks and framing while the MT 55 has improvements for sheet work, although they both are used interchangeably depending on your wallet.
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  #32  
Old 10-16-2015, 01:28 PM
tomp913 tomp913 is offline
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TooManyToys View Post
Not the best example of Mafell products.

The KSS 400 like the MT 55 are heavy saws to use for trim work freehand, and I'm not sure he used the flat side of the trim for every cut. If a Mafell dedicated user is doing trim they are going to use the KSS 300 and P1cc for their work, and Tom Gensmer, who contributed a lot to this brand years ago, got Collins Tool to make make their coping foot for the P1cc which makes it a great coping tool.

The KSS 400 is tailored more towards decks and framing while the MT 55 has improvements for sheet work, although they both are used interchangeably depending on your wallet.
I wasn't impressed by the 400, found a video showing the 300 and immediately wanted one - until I saw the almost $1000 price.

The concept I have for the EZ has, I believe, most of the negatives of the KSS400 - other than the saw being attached, which may not be that much of a problem, I'd have to try one out to see. Any design with the pivot on one side of the track and the "locking" detent on the other is going to be relatively clunky, like the 400 - say the track width, pivot to edge, is 5", the 45 detent is going to be 5" up the track from the 0 position, and the -45 is going to be 5" towards the operator. Rick (Bump'nStump) has minimized this with his slew-ring design which is a nice compact design (and I can see it being relatively easy to mass produce if you look at molded plastic for the interlocking ring feature - and I'd even look at UHMW for someone making their own copy). To be honest, I was really impressed with Tracedfar's version using an Incra miter gauge head bolted to an adapter that fits into the left edge slot, and I can't see the negatives of that design. I don't know which Incra he started with, but the V27 seems relatively lightweight/compact (strictly from looking at photos, I have the 1000HD for comparison). It would seem that the V27, bolted to an aluminum block machined to slide in the edge groove, and using a section of EZ T-track bolted to the Incra miter head (you would have to make a block that fitted inside the T-track to stiffen it up and provide the tapped holes for the pivot bolt and the bolt at the detent lock - a section of connector could possibly work) as the fence. If the adapter block for the track edge was made removable, the miter head/T-track assembly could be taken on and off as needed and stored separately - and it shouldn't go out of alignment when you do either. An added benefit is that the miter head would work in the same manner as the handle on the Cabinet Maker to prevent the assembly from tipping when it was laid on the material. Although I probably don't have a lot of use for it, I may try to find time to make one - the V27 is $70 on Amazon (I use my 1000 too much to take it apart and use), a section of T-track and a piece of connector (assuming that it works) so you could have the assembly made up for about $100 and some time. The $100 is doable, time is always the problem. My buddy with the mill is out of town until mid-November, I'll talk to him about milling the adapter block when he returns - his car is sitting here at the house and I'll be picking him up at the airport so shouldn't forget.

Last edited by tomp913; 10-16-2015 at 01:30 PM. Reason: Typo
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  #33  
Old 10-16-2015, 02:27 PM
sean9c sean9c is offline
 
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As I understand it there would be 2 ways to attach an Incra miter gauge to the EZ track, not sure which way anyone is considering. The easiest would be to flip it over and attach the miter bar to the edge of the EZ track. That way your material is against the Incra fence as designed. The downside is that the head is now upside down, so harder to set and read. The other way is to have the Incra right side up with the fence against the track edge and your material against the miter bar. The hard part with that is that you have to modify the Incra head so it is thin enough not to interfere with your saw or base. The upside is that head faces up so it's easier to set and read. Has anyone with an Incra looked to see if you can modify it enough to get the head less than 1/2" tall? Also I bet you're paying a good part of the cost of the miter gauge for the fancy width adjustable miter bar which you wouldn't need. Any chance Incra would sell the gauge without the bar?
Looking at the Incra miter gauges you have to get to the 1000 before you have less than 1 degree adjustability. In my experience, at least, 1 degree of adjustability is not fine enough, one degree difference is huge.
For what it's worth, for any material narrow enough to be cut on a miter saw you will not beat the speed and accuracy.
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  #34  
Old 10-16-2015, 04:54 PM
tomp913 tomp913 is offline
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sean9c View Post
As I understand it there would be 2 ways to attach an Incra miter gauge to the EZ track, not sure which way anyone is considering. The easiest would be to flip it over and attach the miter bar to the edge of the EZ track. That way your material is against the Incra fence as designed. The downside is that the head is now upside down, so harder to set and read. The other way is to have the Incra right side up with the fence against the track edge and your material against the miter bar. The hard part with that is that you have to modify the Incra head so it is thin enough not to interfere with your saw or base. The upside is that head faces up so it's easier to set and read. Has anyone with an Incra looked to see if you can modify it enough to get the head less than 1/2" tall? Also I bet you're paying a good part of the cost of the miter gauge for the fancy width adjustable miter bar which you wouldn't need. Any chance Incra would sell the gauge without the bar?
Looking at the Incra miter gauges you have to get to the 1000 before you have less than 1 degree adjustability. In my experience, at least, 1 degree of adjustability is not fine enough, one degree difference is huge.
For what it's worth, for any material narrow enough to be cut on a miter saw you will not beat the speed and accuracy.
The was no photo of the set-up with the miter head, but I assumed from the description that the miter haed would bolt to the edge of the EZ track. I don't see the need to modify the head as it would be outside the edge of the track and would not interfere with the saw (The EZ base is not as wide as the track, and I can't see the adapter being tall enough to hit the saw body) I was thinking that the adapter that fitted into the groove in the edge of the track could be L-shaped, 1/2" thick to match the track and then 1-1/2" to match the miter head.

I didn't realize that the V27 only provided 5 increments. I called Incra and they confirmed this; the 1000 is the least expensive model to provide the vernier adjustment. They don't sell the head assembly less fence and miter bar, you would have to buy the components individually from their Parts Dept. I'll take a look at what's involved, and the cost, and see whether I still want to look at making a test unit.

Didn't take that long to figure out the parts http://www.incra.com/info/Miter1000.pdf Looks like Parts 5, 6, 7B and 14 is what would be required - total cost is $76.37 I can go out and measure my 1000 as I believe that the adapter could be rabbeted on the outside edge (the inner edge would be machined to match the edge groove in the track) at the bottom so that the protractor would slide underneath and attached with bolts coming in from the top - essentially replacing Part 6 and dropping $10 from the parts cost. At $65, that's looking more manageable and I'd only be looking at 1/2" thick aluminum to make the adapter and I have a bunch of that. I'll do a little more checking, take some measurements and see what would be involved in machining the adapter so I can talk to my buddy when he gets back from vacation.

Last edited by tomp913; 10-16-2015 at 05:14 PM. Reason: Update
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  #35  
Old 10-16-2015, 06:53 PM
Tracedfar Tracedfar is offline
 
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To attach the Incra gauge to the side of the guide rail, I used 2 M5 channel nuts/ t-nuts with washers and machine screws. The slots in the gauge needed to be extended about .25" lower so it would mount flat with the guide rail. I used some spare 3/8 aluminum bar stock to replace the standard miter bar. It was pretty solid. The gauge I used was a V27, the least expensive version in case I destroyed it.

For the Shinwa gauge I again used the channel nuts. I made some pretty rough brackets to attach it to the guide rail. It wasn't as precise for two reasons: 1- The Shinwa doesn't have the positive stops like Incra. 2- The gauge had to be attached to the guide rail with the brackets and t-nuts (more pieces) which allowed more slop. Whereas the Incra could be attached directly to the guide rail without brackets.
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  #36  
Old 03-04-2017, 01:05 PM
JamesMac JamesMac is offline
 
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Tom Gensmer,

I see that you have some sort of blue insert or spacer on the thinner arm of the miter guage that is under the EZ guiderail. Did you make the insert? If so, can you please elaborate? If this is a purchased item, where did you get it?

thanks,
Jim
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  #37  
Old 03-08-2017, 03:15 PM
JamesMac JamesMac is offline
 
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Hi All,

I don't think Tom Gensmer is around to answer this question any more. I saw him on a video commercial for a different brand of tools. Does anyone have any idea of where the blue insert on the miter guage in his photos came from? It looks like an insert that makes the skinny part of the miter guage arm flush with the thicker base.

thanks,
Jim
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  #38  
Old 03-08-2017, 07:32 PM
sean9c sean9c is offline
 
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Of course mentioning that Tom went another direction got me looking. Wow, he sure did make a commitment.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gztJlgFEMnE
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  #39  
Old 03-10-2017, 02:15 PM
TooManyToys TooManyToys is offline
 
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While he has a large commitment with Festool, Tom then migrated some of the tools from Festool towards Mafell. But he can do a business write off with the Mafell expense.
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