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  #21  
Old 08-20-2012, 08:19 PM
bigjohn1 bigjohn1 is offline
 
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Originally Posted by Vondoom88 View Post
I've got nothing against BFM designs. However I don't find his home offerings aesthetically pleasing. Which obviously has nothing to do with how they sound.

I've always been more interested in his horn loaded subs & maybe his PA stuff since I have a couple of friends who play.
Yes I would agree BFM home theater systems don't look that great or old fashion in a way. None of there speaker look like they would have good sound. They all look old fashion to me like a weekend project from plywood but the sound from using good parts and a set of good proven plans tell the story guys are making them all over the world and why you can't buy anything that good for the price to make your own.

You can also dress them up to your liking and take it as far as you like.

I don't need a shiny finish anything done with duratex or a bed liner product is fine with me.

I kinda like the way there speakers look not fancy but do the job well.
Also in the pro world need something to stand up to the setups and tear downs each week.

I really don't like any speaker made from MDF or particle board I think both of them are garbage material maybe for kitchens there ok I'm sure there are guys that love the stuff.
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Last edited by bigjohn1; 08-20-2012 at 08:22 PM.
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  #22  
Old 08-21-2012, 02:12 AM
Dustin B Dustin B is offline
 
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My next speakers will come from this thread.

http://www.avsforum.com/t/1291022/he...-rallying-here

He's selling the kits through this site:

http://www.diysoundgroup.com/plastic...aker-kits.html

It's still getting setup though so things aren't complete on it. 2 design are pretty much ready to sell with over a dozen more coming.

And pretending I'm Crocodile Dundee, that's not a sub, this is a sub



My infinite baffle manifold in my screen wall. Pair of FiCar Audio SSD18 subs modified by the manufacture for home IB use. Built it to expand to 4 if I ever desired, and turns out I don't :P
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  #23  
Old 08-21-2012, 02:59 AM
bigjohn1 bigjohn1 is offline
 
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Dang Dustin that's one big speaker or sub.

BFM and one of the other guys that have built more can explain things better.

I believe you can get as good or better sound with 12" or 15" speakers for some reason 18" are not the best for subs. From what I have read so far and I'm sure there are many thoughts about what is best way of making a sub.

BFM has some bigger subs for sure like concert size If you look at there site you will understand why pro's use there setup. I would think you can get a better sound quality from a folded horn and make it smaller in the mean time.

I just can't see a vented sub doing a better job in any way. I don't know very mutch about the big picture thats just how I would see it maybe wrong.

Its like the EZ system hard to change thoughts about a table saw over the EZ dead wood concept.

I guess the same goes for BFM folder horns and subs.
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  #24  
Old 08-21-2012, 09:18 AM
Vondoom88 Vondoom88 is offline
 
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With infinite baffle subs its all about displacement most use multiple 15's or 18's. Here is one with 12 - 12" subs and its got the in room measurements http://home.comcast.net/~klone-audio...-12Shiva1.html

They can achieve in room response down in the single digits to do that you have to move a lot of air. They also happen to be extremely accurate in response as well, like a sealed sub. You can read more about them here: http://ibsubwoofers.proboards.com/
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  #25  
Old 08-21-2012, 09:22 AM
Vondoom88 Vondoom88 is offline
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bigjohn1 View Post
Yes I would agree BFM home theater systems don't look that great or old fashion in a way. None of there speaker look like they would have good sound. They all look old fashion to me like a weekend project from plywood but the sound from using good parts and a set of good proven plans tell the story guys are making them all over the world and why you can't buy anything that good for the price to make your own.

You can also dress them up to your liking and take it as far as you like.

I don't need a shiny finish anything done with duratex or a bed liner product is fine with me.

I kinda like the way there speakers look not fancy but do the job well.
Also in the pro world need something to stand up to the setups and tear downs each week.

I really don't like any speaker made from MDF or particle board I think both of them are garbage material maybe for kitchens there ok I'm sure there are guys that love the stuff.
The reason for MDF's popularity in speaker building is it's extremely dense & cheap. Particle board is crap for speakers a lot of guys use 13 ply baltic birch the void free stuff but last time I priced it it was around 50.00 a sheet. Plus MDF is always void free, down side is all that terrible dust that comes with cutting and routing it.
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SGS 64" W/ Miter square. Ripsizer, SSRK, B-100 & STK 36", 24" tracks & a EZ-One ...... so far + a UEG!!
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  #26  
Old 08-21-2012, 11:36 AM
Dustin B Dustin B is offline
 
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It's all about proper design. When designing a sub certain alignments will end up with a certain Q value (whether sealed, ported, PR, bandpass, etc). This value will have a lot more to do with how the sub sounds than anything else. Low Q, tight and controlled, high Q boomy and sounds like crap. The cheaper bandpass sub designs for home and car use are all very high Q, they get loud but sound like crap.

Driver size is irrelevant for sub frequencies, well almost. The import part is that the motor is strong enough to accurately move the MMS (moving mass) of the cone. If the motor can do that for a particular cone size then all bigger cones get you is more air moved which means they can play louder, lower with less cone movement.

But even all that matters less than the room and how the sub (preferably subs) are setup in the room. At bass frequencies the room has the most effect on the sound. Ideally you want to get 3 subs that cover overlapping ranges and place them in different parts of the room adjusting, placements, low passing and high passing to blend them together creating the smoothest in room response. The technique is advocated by a fellow named Earl Geddes. I got to hear his personal theater, 3 bandpass subs of his design, extensive room treatments including loads of damping and a sound proof room. This was by far the best bass I'd ever heard, it was unreal.

Last edited by Dustin B; 08-21-2012 at 11:40 AM.
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  #27  
Old 08-21-2012, 02:50 PM
bigjohn1 bigjohn1 is offline
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Vondoom88 View Post
With infinite baffle subs its all about displacement most use multiple 15's or 18's. Here is one with 12 - 12" subs and its got the in room measurements http://home.comcast.net/~klone-audio/page13-12Shiva1.html

They can achieve in room response down in the single digits to do that you have to move a lot of air. They also happen to be extremely accurate in response as well, like a sealed sub. You can read more about them here: http://ibsubwoofers.proboards.com/
Wow mark I have never sean one like that before dual's also thats a lot of speaker.
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  #28  
Old 08-21-2012, 02:53 PM
bigjohn1 bigjohn1 is offline
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Vondoom88 View Post
The reason for MDF's popularity in speaker building is it's extremely dense & cheap. Particle board is crap for speakers a lot of guys use 13 ply baltic birch the void free stuff but last time I priced it it was around 50.00 a sheet. Plus MDF is always void free, down side is all that terrible dust that comes with cutting and routing it.

Yes I know what you mean and yes the baltic birch is that price. If I was not to carry the speakers maybe mdf would be fine but the dust and the weight is a killer and hell don't get it wet lol.
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  #29  
Old 08-21-2012, 02:59 PM
bigjohn1 bigjohn1 is offline
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dustin B View Post
It's all about proper design. When designing a sub certain alignments will end up with a certain Q value (whether sealed, ported, PR, bandpass, etc). This value will have a lot more to do with how the sub sounds than anything else. Low Q, tight and controlled, high Q boomy and sounds like crap. The cheaper bandpass sub designs for home and car use are all very high Q, they get loud but sound like crap.

Driver size is irrelevant for sub frequencies, well almost. The import part is that the motor is strong enough to accurately move the MMS (moving mass) of the cone. If the motor can do that for a particular cone size then all bigger cones get you is more air moved which means they can play louder, lower with less cone movement.

But even all that matters less than the room and how the sub (preferably subs) are setup in the room. At bass frequencies the room has the most effect on the sound. Ideally you want to get 3 subs that cover overlapping ranges and place them in different parts of the room adjusting, placements, low passing and high passing to blend them together creating the smoothest in room response. The technique is advocated by a fellow named Earl Geddes. I got to hear his personal theater, 3 bandpass subs of his design, extensive room treatments including loads of damping and a sound proof room. This was by far the best bass I'd ever heard, it was unreal.
Thanks Dustin some good info. I don't have the room for a large home theater but do watch a lot of movies and TV. I have sean some great info here thanks to both of you guys. I am a moblie DJ and for sure would like to keep it lite with the best sound I can.
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  #30  
Old 08-21-2012, 05:22 PM
Vondoom88 Vondoom88 is offline
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bigjohn1 View Post
Yes I know what you mean and yes the baltic birch is that price. If I was not to carry the speakers maybe mdf would be fine but the dust and the weight is a killer and hell don't get it wet lol.
Yeah MDF turns to mush if it gets even moist really! For speakers in the home MDF isn't a bad choice if you can cut and route outside even with dust collection its a mess.
If your building something to take from gig to gig definitely go with plywood much tougher for repeated setup and tear downs & lighter too.

For a DJ rig I don't know how you can beat the stuff over at BFM. I watched a video were a guy built a Jack10 and powered it with one of those cheap 20.00 Lepai class "T" amps and it sounded pretty damn good to me.
The prices my buddy that plays has thrown around for entry level PA stuff from behringer,EV & Mackie is crazy expensive!
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SGS 64" W/ Miter square. Ripsizer, SSRK, B-100 & STK 36", 24" tracks & a EZ-One ...... so far + a UEG!!

Last edited by Vondoom88; 08-21-2012 at 05:29 PM.
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