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  #1  
Old 10-18-2009, 02:31 AM
Randal Stevenson Randal Stevenson is offline
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Default I received an answer, to a question I never asked.

There is a thread over at Sawmill right now, about using only a guide system, no tablesaw (although still having a bandsaw).

Kieth posted, he no longer uses his tablesaw, except to hold up the attached router tables (makes them expensive).

Sounds like you have another person to add to your list, Dino.
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  #2  
Old 10-18-2009, 03:24 AM
Dino Dino is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Randal Stevenson View Post
There is a thread over at Sawmill right now, about using only a guide system, no tablesaw (although still having a bandsaw).

Kieth posted, he no longer uses his tablesaw, except to hold up the attached router tables (makes them expensive).

Sounds like you have another person to add to your list, Dino.
Randal,
I just replied to the same thread.
Watch for the fireworks.

I think, the time has come where the facts have to be presented by all of us
for other to see, learn and benefit.

Are you posting there?
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  #3  
Old 10-18-2009, 05:29 AM
Randal Stevenson Randal Stevenson is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dino View Post
Randal,
Are you posting there?


Don't think I have to. There were two posts that IMHO, covered the bases.
1. Keith Outten , "only you can decide for yourself"

Straightforward enough, since we are the ones who live with our decisions.

2. You, "To get the right answers you have to do some research and ask real questions about specific tasks and capabilities and not very generic questions"

So he needs to ask questions, to get a truely informed decision. Now I hope he also asks about solid wood, as I know an inventor, who seems to me to bring plywood up (yes a selling point), so others point and say it is only good for that.

OK, so I left a reply. He doesn't say where he is (not in profile), so if he is close enough, I suggested he go for demo's of both (a more objective comparison).

Last edited by Randal Stevenson; 10-18-2009 at 05:30 AM. Reason: brain and hands couldn't type together.
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  #4  
Old 10-19-2009, 08:22 PM
Bruce Benjamin Bruce Benjamin is offline
 
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I rarely visit SMC anymore, let alone post there. But I decided to add my slant on the thread. I basically pointed out that there are differences between brands and what they are capable of. If one is going to ask the question one should be brand specific. One brand can/will replace a tablesaw and the other brands won't. Lumping Eurekazone in with the other brands without distinction helps the other brands' reputations and brings EZ down to a more common level.

Bruce
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  #5  
Old 10-20-2009, 07:03 PM
Bruce Benjamin Bruce Benjamin is offline
 
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Angry SMC Is

I'm sorry that this if off topic for this particular forum but I am seriously pissed off at SMC right now. As I said in my previous post, I replied to the SMC thread linked in this thread. I was very careful not to mention any specific brand and only used the terms, "Guided saw system" and, "Tracksaw". SMC moderator, "Ken" decided to edit my post and removed the words, "Tracksaw", indicating that he edited the post to remove specific brand names. Huh? I PM'd him and told him that he made a mistake and that I didn't mention a specific brand name anywhere in my post. He replied back implying that I knew all along that by using the word, "Tracksaw" I was advertising for the Tracksaw Forum. Wrong, Wrong, Wrong!!! It never occurred to me that I was advertising at all. It's about as generic a term as I can think of for Festool, EZ Smart, Makita, or Dewalt. I really resent that he thinks I am a liar and that I would be such a bold liar as to continue to lie and complain when I, "Got caught". He said that Keith won't allow me to post if this is the type of thing I was going to post. Keith, a friend of EZ Smart? Not even a little bit.

He went on to say that the, "Blatant free advertising of EZ Smart by Bruce, Dino, and Burt won't be tolerated." I saw that Burt's reply to my post was deleted completely and I never did see Dino's post. I guess that any mention of EZ Smart is now not allowed on the SMC forum. I thought that Burt's post was a perfectly on-topic reply to the OP's original question.

In my opinion Ken is a @#$%$#& and has now taken an aggressive position against Eurekazone, Dino, and anyone who brings up EZ on the SMC forum. Dino, I know that for some reason you still think that Keith is, "A friend of EZ Smart" but I can assure you that he is NOT. How can he possibly be called a friend when he not only allows his moderators to bully and completely censor EZ Smart but supports them while they do it? How hard is this to grasp that Keith IS NOT YOUR FRIEND! I don't care how much he uses his EZ Tools. That's irrelevant. He is directly responsible for one of EZ's biggest enemies and that is SMC. If he were truly a friend he would either boot moderators like Ken or at the very least make it very clear that he won't allow this sort of attacks on EZ Smart. This issue is crystal clear to me and should be to anyone.

Bruce

Last edited by Bruce Benjamin; 10-20-2009 at 07:05 PM.
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  #6  
Old 10-20-2009, 07:19 PM
Burt Burt is offline
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Bruce,

Ken's attitude about EZ hasn't changed. He has changed several posts for me.

The post that he deleted, even mentioned Festool and John Lucas. Like you, I thought that my post was within limits. My post had nothing bad to say about anyone or anything. I did use EZ and terms associated with EZ freely because the post specifically asked for information on EZ.

Here is the post Ken deleted because it was advertising:

I don't really see whether you're cutting hardwood or plywood is relative. I handle both with ease with the EZ System. As Bruce said, we need to stay brand specific in these discussions. With the Powerbench and other EZ innovataions I don't have a problem. Just today I delivered an 8' x 3' pantry with sliding shelves, 25 raised panel maple doors, and eleven drawer fronts. All and I repeat all of the cutting was done with the EZ System.

Last week, I delivered a 8' entertainment system - again all of the cutting was done with EZ equipment. A little while before, it was solid wood wedge shaped end tables.

I don't want to step on anyone's toes but many of those responding to these threads don't have enough experience to offer an informed opinion.

How many of the people responding to this thread have actually moved the table saw out and tried running a shop with a guided system? I don't just mean one project - that shows nothing.

My shop has been table saw free for about a year. I continue to do all the projects that I did before. I am doing commerical projects. I feel no more limitations than I felt with the table saw. As I said in an earlier post, this didn't happen over night.

When my plywood is delivered, I have it put on a large set of shelves. I just slide the plywood off the shelf onto a cutting table and I'm off the races. I don't believe how much easier life is with the EZ system.

If I recall correctly, John Lucas of Wood Shop Demo's has also gone to a shop without a table saw. Naturally he is using Festool equipment.

Burt

Last edited by Burt; 10-20-2009 at 07:30 PM.
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  #7  
Old 10-20-2009, 07:32 PM
Randal Stevenson Randal Stevenson is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bruce Benjamin View Post
I'm sorry that this if off topic for this particular forum but I am seriously pissed off at SMC right now. As I said in my previous post, I replied to the SMC thread linked in this thread. I was very careful not to mention any specific brand and only used the terms, "Guided saw system" and, "Tracksaw". SMC moderator, "Ken" decided to edit my post and removed the words, "Tracksaw", indicating that he edited the post to remove specific brand names. Huh? I PM'd him and told him that he made a mistake and that I didn't mention a specific brand name anywhere in my post. He replied back implying that I knew all along that by using the word, "Tracksaw" I was advertising for the Tracksaw Forum. Wrong, Wrong, Wrong!!! It never occurred to me that I was advertising at all. It's about as generic a term as I can think of for Festool, EZ Smart, Makita, or Dewalt. I really resent that he thinks I am a liar and that I would be such a bold liar as to continue to lie and complain when I, "Got caught". He said that Keith won't allow me to post if this is the type of thing I was going to post. Keith, a friend of EZ Smart? Not even a little bit.

He went on to say that the, "Blatant free advertising of EZ Smart by Bruce, Dino, and Burt won't be tolerated." I saw that Burt's reply to my post was deleted completely and I never did see Dino's post. I guess that any mention of EZ Smart is now not allowed on the SMC forum. I thought that Burt's post was a perfectly on-topic reply to the OP's original question.

In my opinion Ken is a @#$%$#& and has now taken an aggressive position against Eurekazone, Dino, and anyone who brings up EZ on the SMC forum. Dino, I know that for some reason you still think that Keith is, "A friend of EZ Smart" but I can assure you that he is NOT. How can he possibly be called a friend when he not only allows his moderators to bully and completely censor EZ Smart but supports them while they do it? How hard is this to grasp that Keith IS NOT YOUR FRIEND! I don't care how much he uses his EZ Tools. That's irrelevant. He is directly responsible for one of EZ's biggest enemies and that is SMC. If he were truly a friend he would either boot moderators like Ken or at the very least make it very clear that he won't allow this sort of attacks on EZ Smart. This issue is crystal clear to me and should be to anyone.

Bruce
Does Ken speak for Keith? I mean he is a non paid moderator, so I would bump it up the chain (forward to Keith) AFTER you have cooled down. Rationally ask him, why the word Tracksaw was left in post #9 (since that was the deleted word), or Festool in the other posts.
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  #8  
Old 10-20-2009, 07:48 PM
Burt Burt is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Randal Stevenson View Post
Does Ken speak for Keith? I mean he is a non paid moderator, so I would bump it up the chain (forward to Keith) AFTER you have cooled down. Rationally ask him, why the word Tracksaw was left in post #9 (since that was the deleted word), or Festool in the other posts.
Randal,

Baggage from the situation that caused EZ to depart is very evident in dealing with Sawmill Creek. This situation has caused Keith and the moderators to look at EZ very closely. They think there is a conspiracy to use Sawmill Creek to advertise the EZ equipment.


Burt
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  #9  
Old 10-20-2009, 10:30 PM
Dino Dino is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Burt View Post
Randal,

Baggage from the situation that caused EZ to depart is very evident in dealing with Sawmill Creek. This situation has caused Keith and the moderators to look at EZ very closely. They think there is a conspiracy to use Sawmill Creek to advertise the EZ equipment.


Burt
Burt,
Like anything else there is two ways min, to see things.
While Some of the SMC moderators are anti-ez for few reasons and they see anything about ez as a conspiracy to advertise, ( paranoia )
( If it was any conspiracy, you don't see me trying to correct the facts...)
Instead Dino you see many trolls with many names in a conspiracy...
They don't want the facts and the truth.
They want to see newbies asking typical questions to show off their typical
methods and tool arsenal.
The poster was asking for advice because he was moving into a retirement
community and the Festool "paid Troll, Jim Baker the super Moderator is quick to misinform the original poster and not only.
Quote:
I own an EU slider,
ad a guide system, each one have it's place and the typical nonsense answers.
( I don't know if he paid for it, I saw him working the trade booths of the maker and supporting
his tool with thousands of posts.)


The same moderator was given credit for spreading the F-word around and make Festool
strong in the American market. ( I challenge him to provide receipts for his tools.)

All that is good but the same time, the Real Troll-moderator was quick to talk EZ Down every time anyone talked about ez.
His Best effort was saying that the Ez Bridge was good to make only pen stock or match sticks?

Keith is the owner but his forum was never under his control.

The other side now. They see ez as a non paying advertiser.
The true is that we donated and paid one way or another more than anyone else at the forum. I like Keith and SMC.

We was forced to start our own forum in an effort of Festool supporters and trolls to run the forum without any resistance from the ez users and people.
Every time someone mentioned or ask any question about ez, he was attacked by the woodworking mafia of many faces.
best solution for them was to keep us underground, away from the general public and direct any question about ez at the ez forum.
I complained many times and told Keith that the ez forum was very bad for eurekazone. I told him that his forum was under the control of Jim Baker and few others. But there is nothing that Keith can do about it.

First they force us out of the general woodworking forum.
later, they attack ez thinking that we don't have the right to answer.
What was next is very amazing but I had no problem with it.
New policy's and if we don't agree to pay for a banner we will lose the ez forum...that was provided to us in an effort to keep the peace and the forum
full of trolls as long as they don't advertise ez.

Even with all that, I agree to pay just to keep the huge amount of info generated over the years. I made one or two payments and I told Keith that I wasn't ready or able to pay for the banner bill for some time.
The bill was never intended for the forum but the ez forum become the executed hostage. I even offered to pay double the amount with tools and auctions. But the decision was made and the forum was closed.

Never the less, we're here now and now that we know both sides,
time for some pictures?

Bruce, this is life and we have to make the best out of any situation.
Here s my note to the smc paranoia.
IF ANYONE CAN PROVE OR EVEN SAY THAT I TOLD HIM TO ADVERTISE FOR EZ AT ANY FORUM...HE WINS EUREKAZONE COMPANY.

Bruce, relax.
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Last edited by Dino; 10-20-2009 at 10:37 PM.
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  #10  
Old 10-20-2009, 11:36 PM
Burt Burt is offline
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Dino,

That is a great explanation of a lot of what is going on and what has happened. I try to keep my blood pressure down. We've successfully met a lot of challenges and I'm sure there will be more to come.


Burt
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