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Old 09-09-2009, 12:02 AM
Dino Dino is offline
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Exclamation EZ Smart System debates and comparisons.

BY Paying Customers/users of multiple systems only.

To me, a good review comes from the paying customers
and not from paid misinformers and affiliates.
In this thread only users of both or multiple systems
can do a comparison test.

If you own and have use many systems, feel free to post here.
thanks.
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
To better understand why I'm posting the Debates and comparisons,
Read this first.
From another forum ( woodnet )

Rick works for Festool.


Quote:
ned said:
.... the EZ guide has... Also the strongest, stiffest guide out there.
Rick Christopherson said:

I have never understood why EurekaZone has touted this as one of their strongest benefits, because it is actually a detriment to have non-flexible rails.

A rigid rail is not going to conform to the curve (sag) of the workpiece, which moves the saw and splinter guard away from the cut, which will increase tearout.

You don't want the rail to be flexible side-to-side of course, but the rail must flex up and down easily to conform to the surface being cut. Any gap between the rail/splinter guard will increase the susceptibility to tearout.

Any time you move the guide away from the workpiece, you completely negate all capabilities if anti-splinter technology.

Quote:
Let me try...
A strong rail system with flexible antichip edges is the best way to go.
The ez rails are the strongest and with the most flexible and easiest to replace edges on both sides of the rails.

The idea is to keep the saw level and stable and the edges to provide the flexability needed in order to apply down pressure against the wood.

With a flex track and non flex edges you have a disaster.
Kickbacks, splintering and Fexperts to tell you that you need a special blade for each type of materials.

The ez system was tested VS Festool and others (by FHB) and provided the best antichip technology.
It was tested by wood magazine and came ahead on rigidity, connection and versatility.
david
[/QUOTE]

Quote:
What's next Rick?
Tablesaws with flex-tops and few F-experts to tell us that is the best way to go because of Superior Engineering? Or by your Super Superior BS?

Taking the Dewalt saw apart to find faults and compare the unique plunge mechanism of thr Dewalt saw to a ($0.24 spring) faulty spring design is way over the top even for me. A non Dewalt guy.

Why Dewalt and Makita are designing antikick plunge saws and rails? Maybe because Festool designed plunge saws to kickback and sell more Superior Flex-rails? I can go no and on but I hope the forum can see thru your BS.


david.
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------



Here we go:
Originally posted on SMC Forum.
Quote:
Thumbs up EZ Smart Eureka Zone vs Festool
Hi everyone!

I own many of the Festool tools and all of Eurekazone's tools. Festool makes great tools, has excellent phone support, and ships quickly. However, Eurekazone's products have better value - Safer, more accurate, cheaper and better supported by the inventor himself - Dino.

For example, the EZ Smart is more solidly built - it is heaver, has three solid connectors (to two of Festool's) and cuts on both sides.

The EZ Smart locks your saw onto its guide rail - making cuts safer and easier. A monkey can safely make perfect, chip free cuts with the EZ Smart with your favorite circular saw. For $179, you're all set to make perfectly straight, chip free cuts easily and safely. Not so easy (or safe) with the Festool system. My expensive Festool rails have cuts in them from the saw jumping the rail on several occasions - unsafe - and a real bummer considering the investment.

The Festool rail requires an expensive Festool saw, Festool blades and a vacuum to work as intended - a big investment - and not always a practical one for many applications. Add the Festool table and you've spent more than $1000.

The EZ Smart systems works with ANY saw - from my 7-1/4" Milwaukee to my 16-5/16" Makita. The 7-1/4" saw, with a $15 blade is cheap compared to the Festool system and safely cuts perfect chip free cuts from either side of the rail.

I happen to buy almost every tool that comes down the pike. I even bought the $3000 Bradbury Industries table. In terms of quality and value, nothing I have used compares to Eurekazone's lineup.

Whenever I put the Festool next to the EZ Smart in front on any contractor I meet, they choose the EZ Smart every time. Why? I suspect that woodworkers prefer to invest $179 in a system that will work with the saw and blade they already have and are comfortable. Throw it behind your seat and you're ready for work. If the EZ Smart is damaged, lost or stolen you are out much less money compared to the available alternatives. I would never take my $1000 Festool system to work, nor would I consider transporting my 5' x 10' $3000 Bradbury Industries table - it just is not practical for the jobsite.

The EZ Smart makes a contractor table saw obsolete. Cheaper, easier, safer, more accurate. With my 16-5/16" Makita, I can straight line any rough cut lumber - up to 6" thick and 16" long in under a minute - a job that once took two people much longer with a Powermatic 12" jointer. Nothing Festool offers will allow such a cut so easily and practically. More importantly is the portability of the EZ Smart. Try moving a 12" Powermatic to your next job site.

I get the impression that Festool gives the American market the bottom of it's product line - perhaps the lengthy, expensive, time consuming UL process has something to do with this. I think the Europeans get a deeper product offering and most likely pay significantly less. Unless you live in New Jersey, you don't pay sales tax, and you definitely don't pay for shipping from Germany.

Having said this, Festool's jigsaws, sanders, saws, vacuums,and routers work well. The 3 year warranty should be a model for other tool makers to follow. Festool's 30 day money back guarantee is admirable. I believe Eurekazone also has a similar money back guarantee.

While value is more important to me than price - Festool's $175 plus tax charge for a long life vacuum cleaner bag for the CT33 is bewildering! I would be embarrassed to admit to any other sane human being that I was the one who paid approximately $190 for one vacuum cleaner bag.

Regarding phone support, I found Festool's support to be outstanding - easy to understand, plain speaking, knowledgeable staff during their business hours - I cannot say the same for all their dealers. I almost never got a human voice when I called Bradbury Industries, and I often waiting more than 24 hours for my call to be returned. Whenever I called Eurekazone, I always spoke with Dino - the inventor. Since English is not his native language, it is sometimes difficult to understand him. Having said this, I have not spoken to anyone more enthused about his inventions, more knowledgeable about carpentry or more willing to help you work safely and intelligently. He has been available day and night, and even on weekends to answer not just EZ Smart related questions but also has graciously provided advice about safe carpentry practices. Evidently, many others have had similar experiences, considering his perfect eBay rating, the buzz on the Internet, and his money back guarantee.

Having used the Festool, EZ Smart, and other systems, and having an appreciation for safe tools with value, I recommend the Eurekazone's products without qualification. When you combine the EZ Smart with Eurekazone's Dead Wood Concept you have an extremely safe, accurate, clean cutting system that is well worth its very modest investment.

I hope my comments have been useful.

Bill Porta
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Last edited by Dino; 09-15-2009 at 12:12 AM.
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  #2  
Old 09-09-2009, 12:19 AM
Dino Dino is offline
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Default ez smart vs festool.

From the ez forum at SMC

Quote:
Update

Demo'd both Festool saws last night. I have added some comments to my table. If I did not know the pricetag I would have liked the saws. But, when I compare a $500 & $600 saw to a $300 saw (EZ makita 5008) I expect it to be a clear winner across the board. In my opinion it did not.

| Item_______ | EZ___________________ | Festool_________________ |
| Rails_______ | Ridgid rail______________| Flexible_________________ |
| Rail connector| mechanically sound_____| weak to twist, bow over len |
| Rail splinter ct| In slot_______________ | Double sided tape________ |
| Clamps_____ | Good, close to cut edge_ | Clamp to matl is too far*2_ |
| Saw_______ |Base on circular_________ | Purpose built rail saws____ |
| Saw operat_ | Std saw_______________ | Must hold plunge depth__ |
| Saw safety_ | Brake_________________ | Riving knife, really like it___ |
| Saw noise__ | Varies with saw_________ | Pretty good in my opinion_ |
| Resale_____ | Good with lifetime support_ | Great, but no upgrades__ |
| Table system| Bridge_________________ | MFT__________________ |
| Table setup | Std config good size______ | Small for larger casework |
| Table ridgid | B300 looks solid__________ | Did not stay square*1___|
| Table options| Lots of ideas, std sizes___ | another MFT (proprietary) |
| Dust collect | Very good with front port_ | Good, but not impressed*3 |

*1 I messed with the rail height adjustment and could move the rail left or right when changing heights. This puts the 90 degree fence out of square.
*2 There might be other standard offerings for clamps that I am not aware of.
*3 I made some custom 'EZ modifications' to my 6 1/2" circular saw and its dust collection is already better than the Festool. When starting the F saw it blows out a big puff of dust and there are splinters thrown off the front of the saw while it is cutting down the rail. There was also a huge cloud when finishing the cut, but This would go away with some backer material. All in all I was hoping for something better for the price.

If you have any items to dispute or add I'd really like to hear them.

I know this has been discussed countless places, but I am interested to see what you guys(& gals) think.

Brian
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  #3  
Old 09-09-2009, 12:33 AM
Dino Dino is offline
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Default Track saws VS Tablesawsw.

Paul G.
From SMC.

Quote:
Eurekazone/EZ Smart rail user weighting in here. You have recieved a great deal of valuable information from others in this thread. Let me add just a little to what has been said. I know you started the thread asking about the Dewalt track saw so if you have already considered the Eurekazone track and decided against, please just disregard the following information.

I built an entire set of kitchen cabinets and 3 sets of bathroom vanities with the EZ Smart rail system. Dados are possible with the EZ Smart's router guide (SRK). The router works on the same track as the saw. It you use a 3hp router Dado's will be almost as fast as with a table saw and they will be just as accurate. Once you get used to it, the setup is just as fast as the tablesaw.

Jointing can easily be done on a router table with a fence that has independently adjustable sides. Tablesaws can achieve really accurate miters but my Dewalt and Bosch compound miter saws are accurate also.

I own an old Delta contractor tablesaw that I used for years. The blade angle adjuster broke not long after I got into using the EZ smart stuff. After realizing the accuracy I could achieve with the EZ rails I didn't bother fixing my old tablesaw.

I don't build furniture, if I did I may consider a good cabinetsaw for the ease of working with thick stock. If all your going to do is case work you will be dealing mostly with 1" or less material. A guided saw system with a guided router will replace a tablesaw for that kind of work if you want it to.

As for the smallest width board, don't think along the lines of mounting the small board to the rail. Instead clamp a stop block under the rail to control the width of the piece being cut. Then slide the small piece up against the stop block and cut. That is how I cut the stiles and rails for my cabinets before I built my PBB (Power Bench Bridge)

See the Eurekazone forum or check out their website for more info on the PBB. It's a more controlled and faster way of using the rails.
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  #4  
Old 09-15-2009, 05:06 PM
Ken Ken is offline
 
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I will post my findings after using the EZ and Festool systems. After using table saws for more then 20 years with no accidents not even a single kickback, this is with unguarded saws I started to feel uncomfortable and wanted a safer and easier way to work. I had seen the pictures of the EZ rails but due to a lack of information I ended up going with Festool. I still own many Festool tools, they are great and serve me well. I will look at different parts of the system and give my findings.

Guide Rail: When I first got Festool rails I purchased 3 55 rails. Festool advertises the 55 rail as the perfect size for crosscutting sheet goods. My thought was to join 2 for rip cuts and have 1 free for shorter cuts. This didn't work out as well as I had thought. I found the 55 rail to be a little short. It is good that the EZ recommends the 114 set which comes with a 64 and a 50 rail.

Here is a list of a few other problems that I had with the Festool rail.

1.When joining rails you have to use another straight edge to align them.
2.If you even look at the joined rails in the wrong way they come out of alignment. I had to constantly check the alignment to keep from wasting valuable wood, which had happened on several occasions. Festool rails can only use 2 connectors. They are not dovetailed like the EZ and have quite a bit of play. The set screws that hold them in place are not adequate for the task. On the EZ the whole connector locks the rails in place so that they can not move plus they are self aligning.
3.The rails are very light and lack the necessary rigidity to keep them from flexing. There were a few times when I really needed a more substantial rail. The EZ most defiantly does not suffer from this. Problem. On a few occasions when I had to cut a bowed board the EZ rail and clamps actually were strong enough to straighten out the board allowing me to make the cut and do it safely.
4.The available clamps would not let me work with small pieces.
5.Festools clamps do not stay put on the rails. They fall off and slide around when moving the rail. The EZ smart clamps have spring tension that keeps them in place yet makes it effortless to move as needed. A die hard Festool user might tell you that no clamps are needed with their rails. This is true only to a point. They do stay in place when cutting but only if the wood is not warped at all. For any expensive wood I always clamped. Also when using a router you must clamp.
6.Sticky verses non-sticky rails. This is one item that comes down to personal preference. I have come to like the EZ non-sticky rails better because it is easier to position the rails on a pencil mark. When using the cabinet maker or repeaters there is no need to clamp. The EZ is faster and easier to position plus it is more accurate with exact repeatability. Sticky strips are also an option for the EZ to.
7.Festools angle unit is a joke. It would not hold an angle and also was to small. The EZ square has been great. There is no comparison between the two especially combined with the repeater. The setup is called the Cabinet Maker and it is a great system. You may say that the Festool unit has an advantage because it has the ability to do angles. After owning it for almost two years I had never used it at any angle, only as a square. But like I said it was not reliable because it was not built strong enough to hold any angle or even to remain square. There were several threads on how to fix the square. One suggestion was to make it a fixed square, rendering the angle ability useless.
8.The EZ has the ability to cut from either side of the rail with two anti chip edges.
9.I like the ability to use any saw on the rail. If something were to happen to the Festool saw I would have been out of luck. With the EZ I could use any saw this adds versatility and flexibility for example I use 7 , 8 , and 10 inch saws depending on the job at hand. Then there is also the issue of blades. With Festool they are an odd size and have to be bought by mail order. Festools blades are also very expensive. I do not like using $50 blades to cut up OSB or MDF. With the EZ you can use any blade in any price range that you choose and even more important they are available locally. Local availability means no interruptions in your work.
10.This one point I do have to give Festool. It is very nice to have a saw that is built from the ground up for the guide rail. Hopefully it will not be to long before one of the major manufacturers makes an EZ saw.

Over all there in no contest. The EZ is a much better tool, is far more flexible, and as a result is a better value. One of the things I like is that Dino encourages the buyers of his tools to be creative in finding solutions to problems instead of buying more and more expensive tools.
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  #5  
Old 09-15-2009, 06:02 PM
Burt Burt is offline
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Ken,

First welcome to the EZ forum. Second thanks for an excellent post. It is refreshing to hear an experienced user of both systems give an objective opinion of the two systems.


Burt
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  #6  
Old 09-15-2009, 06:49 PM
Randal Stevenson Randal Stevenson is offline
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Flexible rails could be a good thing if your cutting on the lathe.

I understand wood moves, but why would you want wood and rails to move/flex? Seems like a way to pinch a blade to me, and tablesaw theory says that isn't a good thing.
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Old 09-15-2009, 06:55 PM
Joseph N. Myers Joseph N. Myers is offline
 
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Ken,

I too welcome you to the forum! And I second everything that Burt said!

Regards, Joe
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  #8  
Old 10-14-2009, 01:59 PM
Ken Ken is offline
 
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Power Bench VS. MFT The Showdown


First before I start I am not trashing Festool. They make products of top quality and I still use their routers, sanders, and jig saw as my main tools in each category. I just do not use their rails, table, or plunge saw any more. In fact the EZ was so superior for my needs that I sold the other tools. My Festool OF1400 plunge router now lives on an SRK.

There were cuts that I needed to make on a regular basis that were a pain on the MFT. For working with sheet goods or wide pieces of wood the MFT worked good, that is as long as you did your ripping first. The MFT will not make a 4' cut. You can buy a longer rail and mount it on the long side of the table but there is a serious problem. The rail is hinged at the back only and requires you to really stretch across the table in order to lift it up, it will stand straight up in the air your rail length is limited by your ceiling height. Even after you do get it to work like this you will then find that the grip on the plunge saw is to high plus you have to maintain downward pressure making a 4' rip doable but very uncomfortable (I am 6' 1” with a good reach) if you are shorter forget it This hinge opens up another pet peeve for me. Since the rail swings up in the air the saw must be removed and set down someplace between cuts. This really started to irritate me after a while especially when there is no convenient place other then the floor and then you also have to deal with repositioning the vacuum hose and power cord every time. When it comes to ripping narrow stock for example face frames there was another major flaw. That flaw came from the rails flexibility. When you lower the rail on the stock it does not sit level. If you make the cut it will have a bevel. I always found myself looking for other stock of the same thickness or a combination of scrap and wedges to add support to the other side of the rail so that I could get a square cut. This was a major shortcoming for me and the problem was even worse if you put Festools “bridge” on the long side of the table.

Another major drawback is that the rail has to be adjusted for height on both ends for every different stock thickness that you want to cut. Imagine having to walk around or stretch over the table to make an adjustment for every change in material thickness. This is just a waste of time and for me it grew old very quickly. Add to that the fact that the hinge and the height adjustment mechanism are made from light duty material and I question it's long term durability. It certainly was not strong enough to maintain it's accuracy and needed to be adjusted from time to time. With the PBB the rail is supper strong as is the bridge. Nothing flexes, the parts are heavy duty and it is built to last a lifetime. The EZ bridge gives you the ability to cut thicker wood and it is self adjusting to the thickness of the material you are cutting. It is strong enough to apply enough pressure to clamp the wood in place allowing you to cut to a line without using the squaring stops. I used this feature quite a bit in the old house that I just bought and am fixing up for my family. Replacing a couple of windows and re-framing the openings resulted in the need for a few tapered cuts from about 1/8” to 0” in order to match the existing frame and siding. It was so easy to just line the marks up under the guide rail on the PBB and make the cuts. The MFT does not have the capacity or the length necessary to make these kind of cuts. With the MFT you are restricted to finer work but with the PBB you can do any kind of work. That is a big advantage in my book. Yes I do like to make fine things but practically I need to do quite a bit of rough work before I get to the stage of doing fine work. Flexibility is very important and the EZ delivers!

Part 2 to Come!

Last edited by Ken; 10-14-2009 at 03:24 PM.
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  #9  
Old 10-14-2009, 10:31 PM
LarryS LarryS is offline
 
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I like your unbiased comparisons. These are some of the things I would like to try before buying. But not able.

My reason for going with EZ was I liked the fact the Dino was here on the forums answering questions and making constant upgrades to existing tools.
Have not received my first order yet, but waiting patiently.

Have worked with table saws and other power tools for close to 25 years, anxious to see if this EZ system is as EZ as everyone says.

Larry

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Old 10-15-2009, 12:02 AM
Dino Dino is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LarryS View Post
I like your unbiased comparisons. These are some of the things I would like to try before buying. But not able.

My reason for going with EZ was I liked the fact the Dino was here on the forums answering questions and making constant upgrades to existing tools.
Have not received my first order yet, but waiting patiently.

Have worked with table saws and other power tools for close to 25 years, anxious to see if this EZ system is as EZ as everyone says.

Larry

Larry
Hi Larry.
Welcome to the ez-free forum.
After 25 years, it maybe harder than you think to go ez.
After 25 hours ( some time even minutes) with ez, there is no way back.
What you need is TRUST.
Trust your imagination and ez is going to work for you.

This is what I do now. Finnaly.

What if I can use three routers on the SRK and one saw he same time?
The results? 80% reduction in time with safety and accuracy so good, that we're forbidden to talk about it...


About the unbiased comparisons in this thread and the forum.
When I first started making, using and selling the ez system
I use and posted pictures and videos of any tool that worked the best for me.
Even if the tools was " the wrong color for the bottom line".
Tool is a tool and we have to get the best out of it.
Long time ago, my saw of choice was a plunge saw.
When I discovered that I don't had to remove the saw from the rail after each cut and I can reach longer, work easier and safer with a regular saw,
I stopped using the plunge saw and started modifying the normal saws.
I kept my plunge saw and use it once a month for special cuts where the plunge feature was better than the plunge of my other saws.
I use it with extreme caution after a stupid kickback. ( 100% my fault)
I do few stupid things from time to time, I'm not a perfect operator or have any special skills or gifts than any other user. I'm just lucky.
But luck runs out and I have no plans to live my life with less than 10 digits.
After a nasty car accident, few epidurals and two surgeries,
I see tools as a big part of me. Like an extension of my hands and my mind.

At eurekazone, we received many requests for "Free tools for Good reviews"

What kind of review are you going to do if you don't pay for the tools?

How do you know that your review is going to be good for my sales if you don't pay and before you even use the tools?
No, we don't offer of have "affiliates" program where you can make 10% from any sale made after a customer visits and reads your "fake" review.
And no, you can't blackmail us at the forums because you don't have the
money to hire a good lawyer.
When our credibility was in question few times ( never mind the whole story)
I offered $100.000.00 cash to anyone if he can produce an email or some type of a proof that we asked anyone to post in our favor at any forum.

To be honest, I jumped in few times ( years ago) when I knew that the so called "debates" was fixed and designed to spread misinformation about my company and me.

Feel free here to enjoy the "only" woodworking forum free of con artists.

welcome.
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Last edited by Dino; 10-15-2009 at 12:06 AM.
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