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  #1  
Old 01-06-2014, 10:57 PM
cut2cut cut2cut is offline
 
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Posts: 28
Default Old square, is there a fix or is it dead?

I have the old square with handle and always had trouble with it staying square.
I have the nord lock washers but they are a little deformed from cranking it down and I didnt really notice any difference.


I see there is now a new square, has this been resolved and what can / should I do with my current one? Is there a way to add knobs to help somehow?
I dont need any mitering.

Thanks.
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  #2  
Old 01-07-2014, 02:39 PM
bumpnstump bumpnstump is offline
 
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Location: Lexington, Ky
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cut2cut View Post
I have the old square with handle and always had trouble with it staying square.
I have the nord lock washers but they are a little deformed from cranking it down and I didnt really notice any difference.


I see there is now a new square, has this been resolved and what can / should I do with my current one? Is there a way to add knobs to help somehow?
I dont need any mitering.

Thanks.
cut2cut, since I haven't been w/EZ from the early days, I'm not sure what the 'old square' you mention looks like- can you post a pic?

A while back, I bought some used EZ stuff from a person, and what is shown in pic one was included; I'm guessing this might be the old square?
On this square, there is a six-point lock-down set up: 2 @ set screws @ either end of the connector pieces; 2 @ snugging bolts that fasten the aluminum bar to the track. Even with all of this, this square still isn't as 'square' as I'd like it to be, plus, to adjust it is a royal pain.
Pic two show the simple mod I did that helps fix all of the issues: keep two of the set screws (one in each piece of extrusion); separate the aluminum bar from the extrusions; move the bar down to allow the existing holes where the snugging bolts were, to line up with the tapped holes where the other set screws were; use some studded knobs to apply clamping ability; you should be good to go.
To set it up: fasten one of the set screws in one of the pieces of extrusion; place speed square on EZ square to make sure the alum. handle and the EZ track are square; fasten the clamping knob on the second piece of extrusion; check that you are still square- adjust if not; fasten the clamping knob on the first extrusion; recheck/adjust for square, if required; fasten the final set screw; recheck for square, etc. It should be ready for use now.

Re. the 'new' square, here's a helpful thread:
http://tracksawforum.com/showthread.php?t=4280
HTH,
Rick

Edit: it's possible that the holes in the alum. handle might be too large for the studs on the knobs to keep them in place, especially once they get 'bonked'. If that's the case, you will need to drill out those holes to accept a bushing, noting that the inside diameter of the bushing should be 5/16" (to match the 5/16-18 thread of the knob-studs); outer diameter of the bushing can be whatever you prefer.
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Last edited by bumpnstump; 01-07-2014 at 02:46 PM.
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  #3  
Old 01-07-2014, 04:51 PM
Burt Burt is offline
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There was a lot of talk about problems with that square. I never experienced them. One thing to watch when using is a square is how you handle the square. If you toss it around, you're going to knock the settings off. If you are having problems keeping the square in square, replace the four set screws in the connectors with short bolts and washers. This will change the holding force to the clamping force on the rail instead of just the point of the set screw. Also this change will allow you to really tighten the bolts and it will not damage the rails.

There is a newer square but a lot of people have the same problem with it. Again, it works fine for me. A lot of the problem has to be in technique used with the square. Also keep in mind that a square is only good for a cut of up to about 4 feet. Remember, the accuracy of the cut will be no better than the surface you put the square against.

Burt
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  #4  
Old 01-08-2014, 09:46 AM
cut2cut cut2cut is offline
 
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Default update

I spent about 90 minutes on this. First the square I have is different than the person above in that, 1 set of screws in the square have slotted holes for adjustment, I think this was done to work on a different set of rails at the time. (I have "AB" rails) That leaves room for adjustment but also gives a place to shift around and lose square BUT that is not what is happening...

First I added 5/16 knobs to the middle of mine (in between the 2 pairs of set screws) since it was threaded already. This allows me to pull the square to the rails but doesnt hit the rail as a set screw does.

Then I moved the whole track around to simulate moving it around the wood make cuts. Still square

Alot of the focus in most threads are in the 4 set screws and the washers there but....

I then simply removed the square from the track and put it back in, in a slightly different spot on the rail.....THATS when it was no longer square as before. This was done with no moving of the track at all.

I then used the method of using a set of rail connectors ahead of the square to give it a stop to put the square back in every time, that helped and lessened the issue but a little off still. ( at this point the results may have been good enough for some,but...)

So I leave the rail connectors in and re-square the square.
I again remove and re add the square, and the same happened as just above, just a little off around the 30-48inch area down the rail.

So it is not the 4 set screw area, it is the basic 2 knobs that self align the square connectors to the rail. It seems that to get back to that "perfect" setting when the square is re-squared to the rail, you must take care in tightening the knobs that hold the square to the rail.

Even though they self align, if you dont tighten them in sync with each other while pushing the square up against those extra rail connectors (acting as stops) then there is just the slightest amount of movement while tightening them to cause losing that perfect square. You really need to re-add the square and tighten them up against the connectors WHILE the rail is upside down to see the effect. It ends up to about a 1/32 gap on one of the squares rails that I made touch the rail connectors.

Unless I hear a better idea (wheres Dino?) then I will add two more 5/16 set screws (same ones the rail connectors use) in the holes in the squares guide since they are threaded...if I can find them. I also might leave the rail connectors as a stop but I do use those sometimes but I think if I added the 2 set screws and leave the square in , it should hold.
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  #5  
Old 01-08-2014, 10:24 AM
cut2cut cut2cut is offline
 
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Default Also

While looking at my square, I kept wondering why it was built using nylon washers? Any reason these cant be replaced or even removed?
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  #6  
Old 01-08-2014, 01:02 PM
sean9c sean9c is offline
 
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Posts: 1,244
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I'd think that asking the square to stay square after removing and re-installing it is asking a lot. I'm not sure it's realistic.
I've never used the old style square but I'm guessing there is a reason EZ abandoned that style and went to the current style. Which needs to be re-squared every time it's installed.

Quote:
Originally Posted by cut2cut View Post
I spent about 90 minutes on this. First the square I have is different than the person above in that, 1 set of screws in the square have slotted holes for adjustment, I think this was done to work on a different set of rails at the time. (I have "AB" rails) That leaves room for adjustment but also gives a place to shift around and lose square BUT that is not what is happening...

First I added 5/16 knobs to the middle of mine (in between the 2 pairs of set screws) since it was threaded already. This allows me to pull the square to the rails but doesnt hit the rail as a set screw does.

Then I moved the whole track around to simulate moving it around the wood make cuts. Still square

Alot of the focus in most threads are in the 4 set screws and the washers there but....

I then simply removed the square from the track and put it back in, in a slightly different spot on the rail.....THATS when it was no longer square as before. This was done with no moving of the track at all.

I then used the method of using a set of rail connectors ahead of the square to give it a stop to put the square back in every time, that helped and lessened the issue but a little off still. ( at this point the results may have been good enough for some,but...)

So I leave the rail connectors in and re-square the square.
I again remove and re add the square, and the same happened as just above, just a little off around the 30-48inch area down the rail.

So it is not the 4 set screw area, it is the basic 2 knobs that self align the square connectors to the rail. It seems that to get back to that "perfect" setting when the square is re-squared to the rail, you must take care in tightening the knobs that hold the square to the rail.

Even though they self align, if you dont tighten them in sync with each other while pushing the square up against those extra rail connectors (acting as stops) then there is just the slightest amount of movement while tightening them to cause losing that perfect square. You really need to re-add the square and tighten them up against the connectors WHILE the rail is upside down to see the effect. It ends up to about a 1/32 gap on one of the squares rails that I made touch the rail connectors.

Unless I hear a better idea (wheres Dino?) then I will add two more 5/16 set screws (same ones the rail connectors use) in the holes in the squares guide since they are threaded...if I can find them. I also might leave the rail connectors as a stop but I do use those sometimes but I think if I added the 2 set screws and leave the square in , it should hold.
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  #7  
Old 01-08-2014, 02:27 PM
TooManyToys TooManyToys is offline
 
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I still have the first generation square with no ability to adjust angles and I'm quite happy with it.
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Jack
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  #8  
Old 01-09-2014, 01:52 PM
cut2cut cut2cut is offline
 
Join Date: Jan 2014
Posts: 28
Default well

What was the verdict for users of the old square? I didnt see anything related to a fix and have also read that some have the issue with the new square. If the product didnt perform, was nothing done about it for the old/current users.

I was told by customer service that I would have to buy the new square. I explained to them that I would buy the same tool again that isnt working in the first place.
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  #9  
Old 01-11-2014, 07:25 PM
cut2cut cut2cut is offline
 
Join Date: Jan 2014
Posts: 28
Default better

So far it is better with the extra knobs and set screw that I added. I went through a 4*8 sheet for a cabinet and only lost square when I removed the square from the rail. I guess I will try to keep the square on the rail as much as possible. I didnt have the rail connectors left in to "trap" the square so that might help when removing the square.
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  #10  
Old 01-28-2014, 01:27 PM
sean9c sean9c is offline
 
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Posts: 1,244
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Was looking at FOG and saw this, it's not new but the first time I've seen it and a good idea.
Make a fixed square that indexes to the side of the track, should be able to take it off the track, put it back on and have it stay square
http://festoolownersgroup.com/festoo...rail-t-square/
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