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Old 04-29-2018, 01:37 PM
tofu tofu is offline
 
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Default Please help me design a better fence

I've been trying to figure out a way to efficiently make a sliding squaring fence support (to attach my incra fence) that won't deflect when wood pushes against it while lowering the bridge.

1) My first fence support was made from aluminum angle and it rode on ridged connector extrusion (connected by two bolt holes). 2" x 1/4" aluminum flexed too much to a point where i could permanently adjust the fence just by pushing on it. This resulted in most of my cuts on large sheets being out of square.

2) So, today i designed a fence support in a t-square style. Almost no deflection. Maybe 1mm if i really push on it. I doubt the force from the bridge pushing sheet goods will move it. I can also slide it along the table and resquare it easily by loosening the bolts, sliding it, and tightening it while pushing against the "tee". GREAT!

The problem is, it's bulky, heavy, and i'm not sure how long plywood will stay square in this configuration, especially after wear n tear.

I was thinking about paying someone to 3d print a thinner version in ABS plastic. I know some basic sketchup (i can push/pull rectangles like a pro), but I was wondering if anyone had a better idea how I could design this smarter.

Attached are photos of how my table is set up. The fence support rides along the b2b extrusion on the sides. The cutting surface is about .25" taller than the b2b.

thank you!
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Old 04-29-2018, 06:05 PM
sean9c sean9c is offline
 
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I'm not sure I understand, you say your using Ridged Connectors. They stick up above the SME. Are you saying that with your mounting bolts tightened you want the squaring fence to still slide? So the way you square it is with the ply rail that slides along the edge of your table?
Why a moveable squaring fence? IMO it's really hard to make anything moveable that stays square, really hard.
Also requires your saw track to be exactly parallel your table edge and your table to be really square.
Still looks like an interesting idea. If I was trying to make one I'd space the 2 connector mounting bolts out as far as I could.
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  #3  
Old 04-29-2018, 06:53 PM
tomp913 tomp913 is offline
 
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My PBB design had t-tracks in the plywood top, mounted parallel to the EZ track. The fence bolted down to the t-tracks, could be slid back and forth and adjusted square to the track. Incra makes a mounting bracket that bolts to the back of the fence and then, in their case, a panel connector but a t-track would also work. You need to add some type of track set in your top to the left of the track and use that and the LH SME for attaching the mounting brackets. Once done, the fence can be easily moved forward and back and squared to the track. I'd like to see a similar feature added to Dino's new EZ1 as that would make the table much more, IMHO, user friendly for cutting panels to length. I'd also change the orientation, longer width than depth, so that the fence attachment points could be spread further apart - my design actually had three t-tracks so the fence would be bolted down at three points. But then, I use the UEG for breaking a sheet of plywood into strips(?) and then the PBB to cut panels to length, and use a table saw for ripping smaller parts. So, in my case, the PBB is basically a glorified radial arm saw with more cross-cut capability.
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Old 04-29-2018, 07:05 PM
tofu tofu is offline
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sean9c View Post
I'm not sure I understand, you say your using Ridged Connectors. They stick up above the SME. Are you saying that with your mounting bolts tightened you want the squaring fence to still slide? So the way you square it is with the ply rail that slides along the edge of your table?

That was the idea originally. I had two set screws to lock the connector into place, and i had my fence support bolted to the connector. I could slide my fence around and just tighten the set screws without losing square.

I scrapped that idea because my tap was rounded over, so I was getting really crappy threads, and the holes would strip out when i torqued it too much. I also didn't want to waste money on more aluminum angle. 2" was way too narrow for bolt spacing.

I switched over to ply and use regular connectors now (had a bunch and they're tapped properly from the factory). Now that I have the t-square style thing going on, re-squaring isn't cumbersome, so I don't need the fence support independent from the connectors.


Why a moveable squaring fence? IMO it's really hard to make anything moveable that stays square, really hard.
Also requires your saw track to be exactly parallel your table edge and your table to be really square.
Still looks like an interesting idea. If I was trying to make one I'd space the 2 connector mounting bolts out as far as I could.

Moveable square fence is mainly so i can be in arm's length of the bridge handle when aligning things to the fence. at 48", I can't hold something against the fence while lowering the bridge at the same time. I suppose that's just laziness
..........
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Old 04-29-2018, 07:11 PM
tofu tofu is offline
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tomp913 View Post
My PBB design had t-tracks in the plywood top, mounted parallel to the EZ track. The fence bolted down to the t-tracks, could be slid back and forth and adjusted square to the track. Incra makes a mounting bracket that bolts to the back of the fence and then, in their case, a panel connector but a t-track would also work. You need to add some type of track set in your top to the left of the track and use that and the LH SME for attaching the mounting brackets. Once done, the fence can be easily moved forward and back and squared to the track. I'd like to see a similar feature added to Dino's new EZ1 as that would make the table much more, IMHO, user friendly for cutting panels to length. I'd also change the orientation, longer width than depth, so that the fence attachment points could be spread further apart - my design actually had three t-tracks so the fence would be bolted down at three points. But then, I use the UEG for breaking a sheet of plywood into strips(?) and then the PBB to cut panels to length, and use a table saw for ripping smaller parts. So, in my case, the PBB is basically a glorified radial arm saw with more cross-cut capability.
I remember seeing the concept for your pbb. thanks for sharing. I got some of my ideas from it.

From what i gather, the new EZ-one is going the t-track and panel route, but the tracks are perpendicular to the saw's path. Kinda like if you just stick 3/4" panels between the SSMEs on the current ez-one.

Dino gave me the simple idea of just mounting 1x4 under SME to make something similar to the incra panel builder tracks. With that said, i noticed orange aluminum and 8020 t-tracks are super inexpensive. I might just go that method instead of fiddling around with this fence. It won't be "infinitely adjustable," but 3 locations to move my fence should be more than adequate.
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  #6  
Old 04-30-2018, 08:50 AM
bumpnstump bumpnstump is offline
 
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Would it make a difference if you were to rotate the B2B 90˚, like what's shown in the pics?

In the 2nd pic, I've mounted a sliding bridge, but you could mount your fence instead.

Or, instead of B2B, maybe use EZ T-track or SME or EZ track or Orange Aluminum or whatever? Careful initial layout when fabricating would allow the sliding fence to always be sucked up fully against the same surface whenever it is tightened.

Easily slid in; easily slid off. Vertical portion of the fence mounting can be as long/short as needed.

Rick
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  #7  
Old 04-30-2018, 09:53 AM
tofu tofu is offline
 
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Hey Rick,

That would be the best orientation for extrusion, and best use of Dino's aligning connector properties. The problem is that my table is just a modified ez MFT. The brackets holding the frame together are the twin connector extrusion that was cut in half for each corner. This forces me to keep the b2b upright.

Although I regret the purchase (mft), it is just sad to see all the money I spent on it go to waste. By now I could have purchased the ez-one with all the modifications I've made (replaced legs, changed top, add fence), but no turning back at this point.
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Old 04-30-2018, 11:02 AM
bumpnstump bumpnstump is offline
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tofu View Post
Hey Rick,

That would be the best orientation for extrusion, and best use of Dino's aligning connector properties. The problem is that my table is just a modified ez MFT. The brackets holding the frame together are the twin connector extrusion that was cut in half for each corner. This forces me to keep the b2b upright.

Although I regret the purchase (mft), it is just sad to see all the money I spent on it go to waste. By now I could have purchased the ez-one with all the modifications I've made (replaced legs, changed top, add fence), but no turning back at this point.
OK. Yes, in your fourth pic above, I can see the fuzzy outlines of how the B2B fits into the double extrusion.

Not meaning to make this harder than you'd want to, but how about attaching an off-the-shelf t-track to the side of the B2B to achieve the same concept? On this page, https://www.ptreeusa.com/ttrack_track.html, scroll down to the miter track and t-bar combo option. I'm wondering if you screwed the miter track to the side of the B2B and utilized the t-bar to mount your fence to, you'd be good to go? If the mounting screws were placed into the B2B flange, they wouldn't interfere with allowing EZ connectors to slide in. Or, you could just mount a piece of lumber to the bottom of the B2B and attach the miter track to it.

Another random thought might be to re-configure the frame of the MFT? I don't have one to examine, but is there a way to rotate those corner brackets towards the outside instead of upwards?
r
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  #9  
Old 04-30-2018, 01:13 PM
tomp913 tomp913 is offline
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tofu View Post
I remember seeing the concept for your pbb. thanks for sharing. I got some of my ideas from it.

From what i gather, the new EZ-one is going the t-track and panel route, but the tracks are perpendicular to the saw's path. Kinda like if you just stick 3/4" panels between the SSMEs on the current ez-one.

Dino gave me the simple idea of just mounting 1x4 under SME to make something similar to the incra panel builder tracks. With that said, i noticed orange aluminum and 8020 t-tracks are super inexpensive. I might just go that method instead of fiddling around with this fence. It won't be "infinitely adjustable," but 3 locations to move my fence should be more than adequate.
My reason for the t-tracks parallel to the EZ track was that I could put the fence pretty much anywhere between the front of the table and the back, based on the width of the part I was cutting, so I didn't have to reach. I had sized my top so that I could cross-cut a standard cabinet base end panel. I didn't have enough available space to make it longer than 48" +/- but figured that I could put an adjustable stand to the right of the PBB .-to support the offcut
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  #10  
Old 04-30-2018, 02:56 PM
tofu tofu is offline
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bumpnstump View Post
OK. Yes, in your fourth pic above, I can see the fuzzy outlines of how the B2B fits into the double extrusion.

Not meaning to make this harder than you'd want to, but how about attaching an off-the-shelf t-track to the side of the B2B to achieve the same concept? On this page, https://www.ptreeusa.com/ttrack_track.html, scroll down to the miter track and t-bar combo option. I'm wondering if you screwed the miter track to the side of the B2B and utilized the t-bar to mount your fence to, you'd be good to go? If the mounting screws were placed into the B2B flange, they wouldn't interfere with allowing EZ connectors to slide in. Or, you could just mount a piece of lumber to the bottom of the B2B and attach the miter track to it.

Another random thought might be to re-configure the frame of the MFT? I don't have one to examine, but is there a way to rotate those corner brackets towards the outside instead of upwards?
r


Hey Rick,

I just tried your suggestion: flipping the bracket around. It works great except now my SME for bridge mounting is not stable because the mounting nut is too close to the edge without much support. I returned the table back to the original configuration for now. I attached a photo so you can see how little mounting support the SME has if the bracket is flipped.

Attaching a t-track to the side of the b2b seems like it would definitely work. I'm just not sure if it will be very secure. Do you suggest just running a bolt from the center of the new t-track right through the b2b's bottom half? Maybe put a piece of wood to fill the b2b slot so i can run a long bolt through both sides without crushing it when i torque it down?

The cost to throw 48" t-track to the side of the b2b is cheaper than buying 3x 24" t-tracks to emulate the "concept ezone's" ST top. Lighter, cheaper, easier -- I like it. Thank you.
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