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  #21  
Old 10-09-2015, 03:12 PM
tomp913 tomp913 is offline
 
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Agree with Rick - unless we're looking at the next generation Cabinet Maker, and there's a couple of things that need to be addressed with it at that time.

I use the Cabinet Maker for squaring and cutting to length strips (panels) after the UEG, so am more interested in a good quick and easy way to set an accurate 90. I made the fixture shown in the attached photo and it works very well - it lays on the shelf under the workbench and takes less than a minute to get the Cabinet Maker set - used it the other day to make the sides for a pantry cabinet, 84" long and the corner-to-corner measurement difference was maybe the thickness of the marking on the tape measure, close enough for government work. I haven't used it at anything other than 90 at this point, but think that it would be pretty easy to make a similar fixture for 45. The last time I needed large parts cut at 45 - top, bottom and shelves for a diagonal corner cabinet - I laid out the first piece on the plywood, cut it out and then used it as a pattern to cut the other parts. Not worth it for a "one time" job.
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  #22  
Old 10-09-2015, 03:55 PM
tomp913 tomp913 is offline
 
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Now that is an interesting concept. I'm assuming that you would have short pieces of connector on top of the strips to slide the track on to - and I guess the track would "lock" the angle once it's on there. How do you establish the angle though - measure each time?
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  #23  
Old 10-09-2015, 06:47 PM
bumpnstump bumpnstump is offline
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tomp913 View Post
Now that is an interesting concept. I'm assuming that you would have short pieces of connector on top of the strips to slide the track on to - and I guess the track would "lock" the angle once it's on there. How do you establish the angle though - measure each time?
Tom,
It's been a while since I messed w/this, so let me see if I can dredge up any coherent thoughts......

Pic one shows the front side, w/the screwdriver pointing to a fixed pivot bolt; pic two shows the same bolt from the backside. The other bolts are slotted.

The theory goes like this: 3 pieces of material (wood/plastic/metal/whatever) that are joined at the butting edges in such a way as to: a) allow the pieces to slide freely; b) have internal 'springs', or some such, to keep constant tension between the pieces. Not too difficult to figure ways to do both a) and b).

The middle piece would have a guide rail for the EZ saw base on the top side; the other pieces have nothing (unless you wanted to attach something to utilize an ACE). If 'push' came to 'shove', one could make the guide rail out of wood. So, there is no EZ track- the sliding pieces are the track. (Would be cool if EZ made some extrusions like this, so we could do more 'tinker-toy creating.......

When you have the 3 pieces joined, there should be no need for the top connector piece- on the prototype, I need it, just to keep the pieces together.

So, what you would end up with would be: 3 pieces of sliding whatever, w/a connector piece at the bottom, which acts as the 'fence'. To tighten, there would be a knob on one of the 3 pieces, from the bottom (or, on, say, the first and last piece, just to make it less prone to bump out of adjustment). To set angles, it would be easy enough to scribe (on the back side) the first piece (w/the fixed bolt) w/angle markings that could be read as the 'fence' is adjusted.

Pretty simple in design, bit more complex to make in my limited-ability shop.
HTH,
Rick
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Last edited by bumpnstump; 10-09-2015 at 06:52 PM.
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  #24  
Old 10-14-2015, 08:35 PM
Tracedfar Tracedfar is offline
 
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So, I finally had a chance to compare an INCRA miter gauge to a Shinwa circular saw guide. Both were modified to attach to the off-cut (in my case, the left) ACE channel of the EZSmart guide rail.

For the INCRA gauge, I essentially reversed the function of the fence and the miter bar. That is, the fence now remains attached to the guide rail and does not move. Likewise, the miter bar is now the fence and swings/locks into the desired angle and is also a fence to hold material against while being cut. To do this, I milled a 4" aluminum bar to 5mm square to fit into the ACE channel and tapped it to receive appropriate bolts. Then I simply bolted the fence to the ACE channel. I also replaced the miter bar with left over aluminum bar tapped to receive the INCRA gauge hardware.

For the Shinwa gauge, I had to make a "T" shaped piece to slide into the ACE channel and attached the stem of the "T" to the gauge. It works but needs more refinement.

As expected, the INCRA gauge is unsurpassed for for being quick, accurate, and repeatable. While locking-in your desired angle requires tightening two bolts, it is still faster and more accurate than anything else out there. However, it's heft, while a good thing for the table saw, makes it a little unwieldy on a portable track saw guide rail.

The Shinwa weighs about half as much as the INCRA which makes it much easier to handle, but I doubt it is nearly as durable. Time will tell. Also, the mechanism for setting angles is simpler than the INCRA but it doesn't have any positive locks for any angles. So, it is only as accurate as the eyes, and mine aren't getting any better. Still, I've found myself grabbing the Shinwa because it is so light and easy to wield.

My conclusion is that the ideal track saw miter gauge would have positive angle locks like the INCRA but lighter weight like the Shinwa. For now, the INCRA gauge is going back to its original configuration for use on the table saw, router table, band saw, etc. It's just a little too heavy for my purposes on the track saw. The Shinwa will be next to my 12" rafter square in my track saw kit. I've found it light and easy to use on or off the track for cutting and marking (or setting angles on the EZSmart miter). By adding adhesive measure tape to the guide edge, it's a 17" ruler/straight edge as well.

I would recommend every ciecular saw and track saw user take a look at the Shinwa circular saw guide.
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  #25  
Old 10-15-2015, 08:56 AM
tomp913 tomp913 is offline
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bumpnstump View Post
Tom,
It's been a while since I messed w/this, so let me see if I can dredge up any coherent thoughts......

Pic one shows the front side, w/the screwdriver pointing to a fixed pivot bolt; pic two shows the same bolt from the backside. The other bolts are slotted.

The theory goes like this: 3 pieces of material (wood/plastic/metal/whatever) that are joined at the butting edges in such a way as to: a) allow the pieces to slide freely; b) have internal 'springs', or some such, to keep constant tension between the pieces. Not too difficult to figure ways to do both a) and b).

The middle piece would have a guide rail for the EZ saw base on the top side; the other pieces have nothing (unless you wanted to attach something to utilize an ACE). If 'push' came to 'shove', one could make the guide rail out of wood. So, there is no EZ track- the sliding pieces are the track. (Would be cool if EZ made some extrusions like this, so we could do more 'tinker-toy creating.......

When you have the 3 pieces joined, there should be no need for the top connector piece- on the prototype, I need it, just to keep the pieces together.

So, what you would end up with would be: 3 pieces of sliding whatever, w/a connector piece at the bottom, which acts as the 'fence'. To tighten, there would be a knob on one of the 3 pieces, from the bottom (or, on, say, the first and last piece, just to make it less prone to bump out of adjustment). To set angles, it would be easy enough to scribe (on the back side) the first piece (w/the fixed bolt) w/angle markings that could be read as the 'fence' is adjusted.

Pretty simple in design, bit more complex to make in my limited-ability shop.
HTH,
Rick
Rick,
Sorry to take so long getting back to you on this, been tied up in a couple of projects. I just finished up the LED worklight for my drill press and getting ready to jump into a lighted base for the SSRK router - all this in addition to the work on the house. I'm still trying to work my head around this, may have to mock it up in the shop so I can understand it a little better.
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  #26  
Old 10-15-2015, 09:30 AM
tomp913 tomp913 is offline
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tracedfar View Post
So, I finally had a chance to compare an INCRA miter gauge to a Shinwa circular saw guide. Both were modified to attach to the off-cut (in my case, the left) ACE channel of the EZSmart guide rail.

For the INCRA gauge, I essentially reversed the function of the fence and the miter bar. That is, the fence now remains attached to the guide rail and does not move. Likewise, the miter bar is now the fence and swings/locks into the desired angle and is also a fence to hold material against while being cut. To do this, I milled a 4" aluminum bar to 5mm square to fit into the ACE channel and tapped it to receive appropriate bolts. Then I simply bolted the fence to the ACE channel. I also replaced the miter bar with left over aluminum bar tapped to receive the INCRA gauge hardware.

For the Shinwa gauge, I had to make a "T" shaped piece to slide into the ACE channel and attached the stem of the "T" to the gauge. It works but needs more refinement.

As expected, the INCRA gauge is unsurpassed for for being quick, accurate, and repeatable. While locking-in your desired angle requires tightening two bolts, it is still faster and more accurate than anything else out there. However, it's heft, while a good thing for the table saw, makes it a little unwieldy on a portable track saw guide rail.

The Shinwa weighs about half as much as the INCRA which makes it much easier to handle, but I doubt it is nearly as durable. Time will tell. Also, the mechanism for setting angles is simpler than the INCRA but it doesn't have any positive locks for any angles. So, it is only as accurate as the eyes, and mine aren't getting any better. Still, I've found myself grabbing the Shinwa because it is so light and easy to wield.

My conclusion is that the ideal track saw miter gauge would have positive angle locks like the INCRA but lighter weight like the Shinwa. For now, the INCRA gauge is going back to its original configuration for use on the table saw, router table, band saw, etc. It's just a little too heavy for my purposes on the track saw. The Shinwa will be next to my 12" rafter square in my track saw kit. I've found it light and easy to use on or off the track for cutting and marking (or setting angles on the EZSmart miter). By adding adhesive measure tape to the guide edge, it's a 17" ruler/straight edge as well.

I would recommend every ciecular saw and track saw user take a look at the Shinwa circular saw guide.
There are always trade-offs when working on a design - size, complexity, cost, etc. - and you have to decide whether the "feature" is worth the added complexity. I have a similar saw guide to the Shinwa, at least 30 years old, much more basic but the same principle. Rick (Bump'nStump) and I discussed the pros and cons when he posted his version for the EZ track a while back. I've been busy with other projects, but I'll try to make time to clean up the sketch of my concept for the miter square. When I originally looked at it, the idea was to have stops only at the [U]common[U]miter angles - 90, 45 and perhaps 22.5. Adding intermediate angles obviously increases the complexity as you now need a way to set the angle and also to clamp it in place. Both can be done, at added cost, etc.

Before getting into a project like this, I try to step back and establish what I'm trying to accomplish - am I looking for a quick way to set the angle on the miter square (Cabinet Maker) or am I looking for a way to accurately set any angle that I could possible want to cut. In my case, every cut to date with the Cabinet Square has been at 90, so I'm pretty happy with the fixture I have to set the Cabinet Square to 90 - it only takes a moment to set the angle or to recheck while I'm working. If I was cutting a lot of long 45 miters, I would probably look at making a similar fixture to set the 45. For shorter cuts, I use the saw guide that's similar to the Shinwa, and set the angle with a sliding bevel - I use either this http://www.incrementaltools.com/iGag...iga-34-222.htm or my rafter square to set the angle on the guide, and have a block of plywood of the required width to set the guide relative to the cut line. Everybody's needs are different, I find that this works for me.
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  #27  
Old 10-15-2015, 12:39 PM
sean9c sean9c is offline
 
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Only related because it's cutting angles and not a great video but this Mafell thing is cool. Since the guy is cutting angles on casing I'm assuming it's accurate.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JW9-JxYz9DE
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  #28  
Old 10-15-2015, 01:10 PM
tomp913 tomp913 is offline
 
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The joint doesn't look that tight in the close-up right at the end. The KSS is what started the project of looking for and equivalent for the EZ.
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  #29  
Old 10-15-2015, 01:32 PM
sean9c sean9c is offline
 
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That's OK. The carpenter seemed to love his nailer, the painter will have plenty of putty around to fill all the nail holes, he can push a little into the miters.

Quote:
Originally Posted by tomp913 View Post
The joint doesn't look that tight in the close-up right at the end. The KSS is what started the project of looking for and equivalent for the EZ.
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  #30  
Old 10-16-2015, 01:49 AM
Tracedfar Tracedfar is offline
 
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Location: Balko, OK
Posts: 216
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tomp913 View Post
There are always trade-offs when working on a design - size, complexity, cost, etc. - and you have to decide whether the "feature" is worth the added complexity. I have a similar saw guide to the Shinwa, at least 30 years old, much more basic but the same principle. Rick (Bump'nStump) and I discussed the pros and cons when he posted his version for the EZ track a while back. I've been busy with other projects, but I'll try to make time to clean up the sketch of my concept for the miter square. When I originally looked at it, the idea was to have stops only at the [U]common[U]miter angles - 90, 45 and perhaps 22.5. Adding intermediate angles obviously increases the complexity as you now need a way to set the angle and also to clamp it in place. Both can be done, at added cost, etc.

Before getting into a project like this, I try to step back and establish what I'm trying to accomplish - am I looking for a quick way to set the angle on the miter square (Cabinet Maker) or am I looking for a way to accurately set any angle that I could possible want to cut. In my case, every cut to date with the Cabinet Square has been at 90, so I'm pretty happy with the fixture I have to set the Cabinet Square to 90 - it only takes a moment to set the angle or to recheck while I'm working. If I was cutting a lot of long 45 miters, I would probably look at making a similar fixture to set the 45. For shorter cuts, I use the saw guide that's similar to the Shinwa, and set the angle with a sliding bevel - I use either this http://www.incrementaltools.com/iGag...iga-34-222.htm or my rafter square to set the angle on the guide, and have a block of plywood of the required width to set the guide relative to the cut line. Everybody's needs are different, I find that this works for me.
I agree. A lot of guys may only need 90 or 45, especially for casework and such. Since almost none of the old (or new) houses I work on have any true 90 angles, a digital bevel square and INCRA gauge are always in my pocket. Odd angles are the norm. If I actually find a square angle, I usually check and recheck before I believe what I'm seeing.

For me, the Shinwa gauge is light and fast. Attached to the portable guide rail, it saves me a step or two for miter cuts. My bevel gauge is good for gauging and setting angles but not so great as a saw guide. I have used it to set a miter square but I prefer confirming the angle on the Shinwa or Incra.

That said, there are a lot of times I have a piece that just needs to be shorter on one side. No need to gauge an angle. Just measure, mark, and cut.
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