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  #11  
Old 08-24-2017, 03:18 PM
TooManyToys TooManyToys is offline
 
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IMO, saws and blades are not the problem here.

I still have edges from 15 years ago and a few from 2-3 years back. Mike G has it right, the old ones worked well. Pulling the old aces of the track is a chore in comparison.

Although no matter the vintage, if you want to hold the marked line the plastic edge has to be compressed by clamping the track otherwise while moving the saw over the areas the ace flattens and the true cut line becomes apparent, slightly away from the saw.

Otherwise, you do as others. Use a pointing device or make your own "ace" that is flat to the bottom of the track.
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  #12  
Old 08-24-2017, 04:20 PM
MHB MHB is offline
 
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Location: Jennings, LA
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Default Thanks to all

Thanks for all the replies to my problem at hand, but Iíve decided to throw in the towel and move on. Fortunately I purchased the product from a vendor that is willing to take it back. The following is my exchange with Dino:

Michael,
I replied to your post.
Please, read my reply and if you still need boxes we will send you the empty boxes to return it.
You have the ultimate system with $80.00 free clamping system I suggest to follow my directions and If you are not happy we will send you the boxes .
If the edge is broken we can replace it for free.
thanks
please, let me know
dino

Eurekazone appreciates this opportunity to serve you.

My reply:
I have read the reply to my post and I truly appreciate the personal response to it. You may not believe it, but I spent months scouring the internet about the various track saw systems. I watched an untold number of demos and settled on the Eureka Zone product. Nowhere did I see any adjustments needing to be made to the anti chip edge strip Ė just beautiful chip free cuts.

I knew beforehand that there were problems with the strips, but thought that I needed to try it out on my own. It appears that many have completely abandoned the strip all together for various reasons. From my own limited experience I can see that the strip is very necessary to achieve what I want.

I bought a new Dewalt saw along with the rail system, so Iím out $300 - $400 with a system that appears wonít produce the results that I had hoped to achieve. I donít know any other way to say this, but it appears that the system is flawed and needs to be refined. While the window of opportunity is there to return the product, I feel that this is something that I must do.

Perhaps in the future Eureka Zone will produce a product that will give better performance and I would be open to try it again. I feel therefore that I must return the product. Could you please proceed with the request for the boxes to return the product?
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  #13  
Old 08-24-2017, 05:13 PM
sean9c sean9c is offline
 
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If you're looking for blades in 7-1/4" diameter Tenryu has a number of tip grinds. All I found at Popular Tools was ATB.
Some users swear by full kerf blades for stability, I'll admit I've not tried one, but I should.
I've had good luck with Matsushita but they are a super thin kerf blade and you have to be careful, if they get dull they'll start to flex.
Another big limiter is just the quality of CS's, most are junk. They were intended to free hand cut wood to no tolerance or cut quality. Spindle bearings are small and loose tolerance and the arbors don't run true. They don't have to so they were never designed to.

Quote:
Originally Posted by philb View Post
In my opinion Dik had the key observation. The circular saw is the root of the problem. Having repaired circular saws, sold, sharpened, and replaced blades, and saw parts, I can state with a bit of authority -- the circular saw is your weak link. I have been surprised at the number of saw owners that never oil any part. I have seen jimmy rigged nut and bolt arrangements to hold the blade on the saw shaft. I have seen $4. blades purchased to build cabinets. At $150 a sheet for premium grade red oak veneer 3/4 inch plywood, and the cheapest blade available -- expecting a quality cut??

Depth of cut seems to be the big focus for many new EZ owners. Still the types of cuts I make the most frequently are well within the capabilities of EZ system. True I can not cut through a 4X4 post in single slice, but how often do I need to do that?

I ask you to consider the EZ system. What is really at fault? Consider putting a quality blade on the saw. If you need a flawless cut edge get a blade from Popular Tools, or a Tenryu. Freud Diablo is not a quality blade. Expect to spend over $100 for a blade. A blade that can be sharpened and last for many years. If you compare the carbide pads (tips) are noticeably larger and stronger than cheap carbide blades. If you were to compare the Popular Tools carbide to the cheaper blade carbide you will see the difference. If you put a cheap blade on the sharpening jig you will be shocked at how out of round the blades are. I have eaten potato chips that were flatter than some of the Irwin blades.

I admit my words are harsh. Please consider the saw and the blade before you blame the system. EZ can not control what saw you use. Neither can EZ control the type of blade you put on your saw. So I will state that in my opinion you do have control over the blade and that will make a big difference in the quality of cut. Also -- read your saw manual! I have been amazed at the number of tool owners that the manual is the first thing they toss out! The logical warning are the same; yes you know you can not operate your saw at the deep end of your swimming pool, even with a snorkel. Still the manual does tell you when and how to oil the saw. Use a compressor with clean air to blow out the saw dust. Sawdust keeps heat in the saw and heat is an enemy of any tool. On that point -- heat will damage the blade -- FAST! The tests that have been performed record the cutting edge of the carbide tips climb to 900 degrees! That will cause damage to a blade. Consider the type of grind you use on the saw blade. There is no such thing as one type does all. Melamine laminate over particle board. Your best cut is using an HATB (High Alternating Bevel) will be the cleanest cut. Not every sharpener can sharpen at the high angle required for HATB. TC (Triple Chip) is not as smooth or clean as the HATB but it will handle the high heat best of all the grinds. ATB or (Alternating Bevel) is nicest cut for quality wood veneer. ATB is the most common bevel you will find, but it is not universal. There are other grinds available but not needed for most of our woodworking. I have written extensively on the blade subject. You can look the posting up under both of my names philphoto or philb. If memory serves, the philphoto has the most pertinent information.

I guess that I have probably irritated enough nerves.
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  #14  
Old 08-24-2017, 05:20 PM
sean9c sean9c is offline
 
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Posts: 1,243
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Not sure what it's worth but I bought some EZ stuff from the local Rockler stores when they were getting out of the EZ business. The anti chip edges that came with that stuff are a different color than the EZ edges I'd previously seen. More of a yellow natural color than the white of the older edges. Not sure if it's a different material, have not tried one and don't plan to.

Quote:
Originally Posted by TooManyToys View Post
IMO, saws and blades are not the problem here.

I still have edges from 15 years ago and a few from 2-3 years back. Mike G has it right, the old ones worked well. Pulling the old aces of the track is a chore in comparison.

Although no matter the vintage, if you want to hold the marked line the plastic edge has to be compressed by clamping the track otherwise while moving the saw over the areas the ace flattens and the true cut line becomes apparent, slightly away from the saw.

Otherwise, you do as others. Use a pointing device or make your own "ace" that is flat to the bottom of the track.
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  #15  
Old 08-24-2017, 05:30 PM
kenk kenk is offline
 
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Posts: 283
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This thread has me a bit confused. It started with MHB looking for help to prevent the ACE from sliding - traditionally the fix for that is bending the ACE a bit, though Dino mentioned "crimp" - I'm not exactly sure what that meant.

But then their seemed to be a mention that the ACE have somehow changed over the years and now it fits looser. Hmmm, I'm not sure if I have older ACEs or newer ACEs, but I've really not had the slippage problem.

Phillip mentioned his concern about blade quality. I do recall his earlier posts on this topic. As I've mentioned before, so far most of my work has been rather rough construction - like building horse stalls and storage shelves. Certainly I've not had the need for super accurate cuts that might be needed for building cabinets and other fine woodcraft. Phillip - can you recommend a few brands/models that are findable at a local HD/Menards/Lowes or findable on-line?

Others mentioned that they've abandoned the ACE altogether. Hmmm, does the EZ Base without the ACE provide enough edge protection to avoid kerf tearout on both sizes of the cut? Or do you just live with what you get? I can see where the base protects the non-ACE side, but am not sure about the ACE side of the cut since I use the ACE.

Ken
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  #16  
Old 08-24-2017, 05:51 PM
philb philb is offline
 
Join Date: Apr 2012
Posts: 162
Default fast ACE answer

The "crimp" that Dino mentions is to take a pair of pliers and crimp down on the first or last one inch of the ACE that slides into the channel. This will expand the slide in part so it will not slide easily, or slide out.

The reason you get so many answers for the ACE is that it has been a problematic issue for some time and really should not be. The ACE means Anti Chip Edge. The ACE is designed to stop chipping that comes from circular saws (in this topic). In attempts to get a nice clean edge. If you are making horse stalls and farm utility shelving then the ACE is probably not a big concern.

The natural tendency of the track owner is to want to line up the edge of the track to the presumed pencil mark for the cut line. I know this is what I tried to do so many times.

It sounds like you could use some sort of device to line up the track accurately to where the kerf will begin and leave it at that. You will need something at each end of the track. Rick Bumpnstump has several designs that meet the need very nicely. I too am working on a design that will be accurate and universal.

What you got was the pantheon of answers for the applications of ACE by the track owner. Thus the confusion. I hope these explanations have enlightened you?
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  #17  
Old 08-24-2017, 06:12 PM
philb philb is offline
 
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Posts: 162
Default more detail on ACE

I offered my explanation on the blades and saws due to the conversation/thread always seeming to veer off to blaming the manufacture of the ACE or the design of EZ track or?????

Really there is nothing "wrong" with the ACE in my opinion. There is "wrong application", or a "not needed" product, or plane old improper use. If you need an exact spot on edge guide to line up your track to the measurement then a device is required to do that task. I have the old track and new and a few pieces made in between. The problem always seems to be that the ACE never fills the guideline need if exacting precision is required. My track is always within 1/32" but that is inadequate for many fine woodworkers. Also remember a lot of track owners "buy the works" before they understand the system (myself included).

In my opinion, you will need to assess for yourself if the ACE will "Do It" or not. Your choice. I do not recall the ACE advertised for anything other than Anti Chip Edge. Again my memory is not that good anymore.
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  #18  
Old 08-25-2017, 03:18 PM
TooManyToys TooManyToys is offline
 
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https://www.eurekazone.com/v/vspfile...s%20v14-01.pdf
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  #19  
Old 08-25-2017, 06:47 PM
Dino Dino is offline
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Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: Edison NJ
Posts: 5,101
Default Indicator.

Hi guys,
Doing multiple cuts of similar size requires a story stick or repeaters.
Next week we will make adjustable indicators using parts of the smart base to keep the cost down. Plenty of ideas in the forum.
This way if you don't use a story stick or repeaters...you can use the indicator.
I believe that instead of a line we can use a utility knife to score the materials.

That will solve the bad edges issue and allows to enjoy the good features.
I will try few ways but I'm afraid that the yellowish edges maybe a bad batch.
while there I will try few more tricks and even eliminating the edges with a new insert.
Only testing will show the best cut.

I was out for few years due to health reasons but ez calls and I have to answer.
Well...stay ez tuned. I'm very upset=Burt and Dick knows very well
what happens when I get upset.

How about turning the ez-one to a tablesaw like cuts?
With the Bridge as the best safety feature and few mod's we will have
unlimited ripping capacity= now we can have smaller portables.

thanks
ycf dino
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Last edited by Dino; 08-25-2017 at 06:53 PM.
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  #20  
Old 08-25-2017, 09:57 PM
Dino Dino is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sean9c View Post
Maybe what EZ should be looking at is ditching the anti chip edges and making a really nice cut line indicator, it should have adjustable pointers. And make a new insert for the saw Base that provides the anti chip protection. I just screw a block of wood, to the bottom of my Base, that the blade cuts through. What would be really cool is to do a 2 piece block so if it wears you could adjust them tighter to your blade, sort of like blade guides on a bandsaw.
sean,
I did this long ago and we have an issue with the guard getting stuck.
If you take another look at the edges you will see that the top part is design to transfer the weight of the saw and especially the guard to the very edge of the bottom piece.
Where the action ( cut) happens.
The blade at 5000 rpm is pushing the fibers upwards and the plastic keeps the fibers down. You don't have to be exact for the chipping because the pressure
is working further than the edge.
But you must apply some pressure to have a super clean cut.
with that in mind...and few practice cuts...life is ez.
On melamine I applied more pressure and I had the best cut ever
with an old 40 teeth diablo blade - few missing from cutting metal studs.

Back to your idea. YES. It works and with an ez indicator ( adjustable)
the system is complete. Except the guard in some ( most) saws is getting stuck. We can solve this problem with another idea that I don't have it right now. A small ball bearing screwed to the guard?

Thanks
dino
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