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  #1  
Old 08-12-2017, 02:15 AM
Tracedfar Tracedfar is offline
 
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Default EZ1 Max vs. Euro Slider Anyone?

On the not too distant horizon is the next step in my woodworking pursuit: turn rough stock into fine furniture. Well, hopefully, nice furniture anyway.

In my research I've spent time watching (drooling, at times) European sliding table saws like Felder, Minimax, SCM, etc. They have some very impressive machines, even some combos (saw, shaper, planer, jointer, and mortiser in one machine!). Some come equipped with digital, automated depth and angle of cut, and self-aligning rip fences, and more.

Plus, there is a greater degree of safety than an American table saw because your hand rarely, if ever, needs to get close to the blade. Also, kickback danger is minimized with a versatile fence system and the fact that you almost always work from the side instead of behind the cut.

However, these things also come with impressive price tags, $5k-$50k. Unless I had cash to burn or ran a production shop, which I don't on either count, it's hard to justify the initial cost.

What to do?

Then there is the EZ1-Max. After seeing some very impressive video demonstrations by some very savvy Austrians, it struck me that nearly every task they made look so effortless on their format slider could be done about as "effortlessly" on the EZ1-Max at about 15-20%, at most, of the initial cost.

That is, I think they could but I haven't used either of these tools, yet. Nor have I seen any demonstrations of the EZ1-Max in action.

So, how do they compare? Safety, accuracy, efficiency, repeatability?
Edge joints, rips, cross cuts, miters, tapers, bevels?
Don't forget the added benefit of the SSRK and a large clamping and assembly surface.

Which do you think is the better approach? Which would you be more likely to buy? Is this a fair comparison? Or is it David and Goliath?

It would be great to hear from some who have used either or both!

Last edited by Tracedfar; 08-12-2017 at 12:36 PM.
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  #2  
Old 08-12-2017, 12:54 PM
Tracedfar Tracedfar is offline
 
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How does a five word reply to a six year old thread bump a new thread about a newer product? Sometimes this forum confounds me. It's seems as if there is some sinister voodoo at work suppressing certain discussions.
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  #3  
Old 08-12-2017, 01:55 PM
Burt Burt is offline
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I have built and used power benches that were large enough for a full sheet of plywood. I found that it was easier to work with the UEG and cabinet maker than it was to precisely place a full sheet of 3/4" plywood on a huge power bench. It didn't take very long for me to take the full sheet size PBB apart and go back to the normal size PBB.

I have no experience with the sliders. I have heard Dino talk about how much better the EZ system is.
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Old 08-12-2017, 08:48 PM
Tracedfar Tracedfar is offline
 
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Thanks Burt. Like you, my UEG is indispensable. I believe it's the best way to break down sheet goods, period.

I get tickled when I see guys use $20k sliders almost exclusively for sheet goods. However, that's not what got my attention.

What impressed me was milling large pieces of very rough lumber down to spec. Then, with with little or no change in setup, ripping and cross cutting to the nearest millimeter, repeatedly.

All the while, no one's hand every came close to the blade. Precision, safety, efficiency but at a fairly steep entry point. I think the EZ1 Max is capable of this level of performance but it would be nice to hear from or see a demo of someone who built a piece of hardwood furniture with it.
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Old 08-13-2017, 01:53 PM
sean9c sean9c is offline
 
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Isn't the EZ1Max just an EZ1 with longer extrusions? So it'd perform just like an EZ1 but with more capacity.
IMO the limiter is that you're still using a CS. If you want depth of cut I guess you use the Makita 5104. But it's still just a CS ,it's 15amp so not much power.
You're comparing it to sliding table saws that are 5hp or more, so at least 5 times the hp of a CS also big spindle bearings for blade rigidity for better cut quality.
It's one thing to ask a CS to get decent cuts in ply it's another to get another thing to try and get exceptional cut quality in timber. A CS getting the same cut quality in hardwoods as a really good TS, not going to happen.
Once again it all comes down to what you want to do with it, an EZ1Max would likely do some of the things a big sliding able saw would do but not all.
Once watched a guy in a cabinet shop cut up panels on a sliding table saw. The saws fence moved electrically, the user punched in the cut width he wanted the fence would move to the correct location. Cut up a sheet into cab parts in just a couple minutes, only time he lifted the sheet was to put it on the table. All dimensions were dead on. It was impressive, also expensive and takes up a lot of space. The guy is also now out of business, if you don't have a CNC router cutting your parts you can't compete.
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Old 08-14-2017, 12:46 AM
Tracedfar Tracedfar is offline
 
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Sean9c, thanks for chiming in! You make good points.

As for power and capacity, a worm drive CS with a larger diameter blade would get you there. But, like you pointed out, would the cut quality be there? There are those who claim it absolutely will.

I also agree about the CNC for just about any kind of production work. I know CAD is the future but I haven't yielded to the notion that it's real woodworking.

Finally, yes the Max is just a big EZ1 (they could have named it The Big EZ). For me, it's the extra long rail on the fixed bridge that holds the potential to edge joint and make long accurate rips. Another consideration is that repeatable bevels are tricky with my EZ system and fairly simple on just about any kind of table saw.
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  #7  
Old 08-14-2017, 11:18 AM
Burt Burt is offline
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You seem to be primarily concerned with solid wood. I found it worth the added expense of buying my lumber surfaced and straightline ripped. That saved a bunch of time.
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  #8  
Old 08-14-2017, 12:05 PM
Dino Dino is offline
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Hi guys.
I used ALL industrial machinery and I end-up making the ez-stuff.
Why? My needs was to make custom cabinets at the garage of customers.
Many times in the driveway.

I order the panels prefinished.
two-three smart tables and few jigs= no expenses and no mistakes.
Custom cabinets needed exact measurements and it was good to avoid fillers and
modifications.

This way I avoided the transportation and damages. No need for trucks,heavy machinery,rental , utilities, insurances, property taxes etc etc.

If I was building custom furniture and other stuff...
I had many shops that can mill and cut to size thick hardwoods.
When I had to run a custom shop full time...doing many tasks...I use a fully shop with all the Barracudas. It was better but always dangerous and
very expensive. I give that up after 2 years.
Even the euro slider was a pain to use.

There is times that you have to use the euro slider as a normal tablesaw
without the sliding table. once, I made a simple mistake and I saw the blade to make the number *8. That was it for me.

Best way to start with tools that you know they're 100% safe, easy to transport
and to re-sale then if needed.

The UEG-Smart table-Ez-one ( not the max) the ssrk and the smart clamping system can do it all. Even if I open a cabinet shop or start building stuff...
I can't see any benefits using tools that was invented after the panels.
The slider is a tablesaw with a sliding table. BUT...is still a tablesaw.
A motor with a spinning blade and a big motor with a fence.
A system for disaster if you don't know how to use it.
The ez stuff ...some times they may need to re-think the cut but not
after you count your digits.

The 1M saws are just like the ez-one. ( Beam saws).
The wood is stationary and the saw slides on the undercarriage.
Pressure is applied from a pressure beam and everything is safe and accurate.
Even the cnc's. Wood is clamped by ( few ways) and the cnc is free to do
just about anything. ( limited to size of the table)

Just few thoughts.
For production shop I can design ( many of us can) a custom ez-shop
and work smarter and faster than any other setup.
I think FREEDOM is EZ
tx
d
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  #9  
Old 08-14-2017, 01:42 PM
sean9c sean9c is offline
 
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It's still back to what the intended use is. The other variable is expectations. What's good enough? Want to cut panels? Sure it'll work. Want to cut hardwood for furniture? Maybe. IMO the big limiter is that the system relies on using off the shelf circular saws. Sure it's convenient but the reality is that, once again it depends on use, if you plan to be cutting up a bunch of tough material and expect good cut quality you're asking the saw to do something it wasn't designed to do. They don't have the hp and they don't have the rigidity. Worm drives might give you more power but at the expense of blade speed and you still haven't addressed rigidity. Another thing to think about is that if you plan to do any bevel cutting is setting the bevels. With even the cheapest TS's it's easy to set bevels within a degree or so. Setting accurate bevels on a CS is a a lot harder and slower.
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  #10  
Old 08-14-2017, 02:53 PM
tofu tofu is offline
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sean9c View Post
Another thing to think about is that if you plan to do any bevel cutting is setting the bevels. With even the cheapest TS's it's easy to set bevels within a degree or so. Setting accurate bevels on a CS is a a lot harder and slower.

I gave up doing bevels on my CS. I always have issues with the cut line and keeping the bevel consistent. Now, 45's just get the router treatment. Maybe it is just me being an amateur

weird bevels (which i only need for inside of horn speakers) i still throw on my really bad craftsman TS.

What do you use odd bevel angles for?

-Chris
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