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  #41  
Old 08-22-2009, 07:36 AM
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Default Dino Makropoulos

Music by Spiro Cardamis.
Poetry by a carpenter.
  #42  
Old 08-22-2009, 07:38 AM
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Default Dino Makropoulos

Originally Posted by sean m. titmas

there is a delicate balance between being open minded with a desire to learn new things and protecting our hard won, strong opinions.


The idea is to keep thinking.
Some times you may have to go against your opinions.
Opinions that you formed in part from the thinking of "many people" others.

Concerning an idea is a double duty problem.
First you have to protect it from the other side and the same time you're limiting yourself from coming up with new ideas.

The easy answer? Keep thinking knowing all the above.
Not an easy task but is doable if you know that what matters at the end
is the freedom to think. Freedom from others and even from yourself.




its an interesting quandary that be fronts us, do i continue to use the standard method that works fine and produces excellent results or do i search for an alternative that improves the results.?

As we speak, we're working on many ways to improve the
best alternative. In our case, the ez system.
The results?
Me, Burt and few other ez users ( The EZ Beta Team) are in total shock.
We're afraid to even speak about it because we will sound like bad UCS.
(Yes, there is good UCS like any other job)

once we have found a way to work with both of them we open up our growth potential and can almost guarantee success.

The success of a new and better way is controlled by "many people"
We must first be strong and realistic as to why a magazine spends 6-8 full pages with pictures and articles " How Not to cut your hands on the tablesaw" instead of showning a new and safe way.


you and your crew seem to be on the right track.

i'v found that growth does not come from simply buying a new tool for the job. it comes from figuring a way to do the job without that tool. once we refine the process of mapping solutions to our issues without using the obvious fix we can than produce results that are successful and repeatable.



For 25 years on the construction sites and woodworking shops, me and my guys we spend few moments before every job to find the easiest and safest way out. When we stopped the construction/woodworking, we had over 300 inventions/ideas documented. The ez smart was only one of them.

Something to keep u thinking.
How many tools you can make using the ez extrusions?
My Brazilian builder/friend saw few ez extrusions laying around
( He's fixing the house) and he told me that he can make 6-8 very special tools.
  #43  
Old 08-22-2009, 07:39 AM
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Default Ben Davis

One other point to make is the intended market. Festool targets the finish carpentry and remodel contractors in a big way. In that venue, dust collection has numerous benefits, including significantly less clean-up time = less cost = more profit. "Quiet" systems are also more appealing to the above listed contractors when their jobs call for remodels at a place of business. Less intrusive remodel = happy customers = referrals. You get the point. The goal of Festool is not to make a safer, better, cheaper, faster, slicker, fancier tool. It's to sell tools. They've found their market and they cater to it. Hobby-minded woodworkers are just gravy for them.

Keep this in mind to help guide your perspective on the various options out there. Do you really NEED primo dust collection? Do you really NEED as quiet a set up as possible? Is there a NECESSARY benefit for you to stick with one brand? Contractors will have one take, you'll have a different on every question.
  #44  
Old 08-22-2009, 07:42 AM
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Default Update - Brian Kincaid

Demo'd both Festool saws last night. I have added some comments to my table. If I did not know the pricetag I would have liked the saws. But, when I compare a $500 & $600 saw to a $300 saw (EZ makita 5008) I expect it to be a clear winner across the board. In my opinion it did not.

| Item_______ | EZ___________________ | Festool_________________ |
| Rails_______ | Ridgid rail______________| Flexible_________________ |
| Rail connector| mechanically sound_____| weak to twist, bow over len |
| Rail splinter ct| In slot_______________ | Double sided tape________ |
| Clamps_____ | Good, close to cut edge_ | Clamp to matl is too far*2_ |
| Saw_______ |Base on circular_________ | Purpose built rail saws____ |
| Saw operat_ | Std saw_______________ | Must hold plunge depth__ |
| Saw safety_ | Brake_________________ | Riving knife, really like it___ |
| Saw noise__ | Varies with saw_________ | Pretty good in my opinion_ |
| Resale_____ | Good with lifetime support_ | Great, but no upgrades__ |
| Table system| Bridge_________________ | MFT__________________ |
| Table setup | Std config good size______ | Small for larger casework |
| Table ridgid | B300 looks solid__________ | Did not stay square*1___|
| Table options| Lots of ideas, std sizes___ | another MFT (proprietary) |
| Dust collect | Very good with front port_ | Good, but not impressed*3 |

*1 I messed with the rail height adjustment and could move the rail left or right when changing heights. This puts the 90 degree fence out of square.
*2 There might be other standard offerings for clamps that I am not aware of.
*3 I made some custom 'EZ modifications' to my 6 1/2" circular saw and its dust collection is already better than the Festool. When starting the F saw it blows out a big puff of dust and there are splinters thrown off the front of the saw while it is cutting down the rail. There was also a huge cloud when finishing the cut, but This would go away with some backer material. All in all I was hoping for something better for the price.

If you have any items to dispute or add I'd really like to hear them.

I know this has been discussed countless places, but I am interested to see what you guys(& gals) think.

Brian
  #45  
Old 08-22-2009, 07:43 AM
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Default Peter Pedisich

Brian,
My comments below in red.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Brian Kincaid
Demo'd both Festool saws last night. I have added some comments to my table. If I did not know the pricetag I would have liked the saws. But, when I compare a $500 & $600 saw to a $300 saw (EZ makita 5008) I expect it to be a clear winner across the board. In my opinion it did not.

| Item_______ | EZ___________________ | Festool_________________ |
| Rails_______ | Ridgid rail______________| Flexible_________________ |
| Rail connector| mechanically sound_____| weak to twist, bow over len |
| Rail splinter ct| In slot_______________ | Double sided tape________ |
| Clamps_____ | Good, close to cut edge_ | Clamp to matl is too far*2_ |
| Saw_______ |Base on circular_________ | Purpose built rail saws____ |
| Saw operat_ | Std saw_______________ | Must hold plunge depth__ |
| Saw safety_ | Brake_________________ | Riving knife, really like it___ |
| Saw noise__ | Varies with saw_________ | Pretty good in my opinion_ |
| Resale_____ | Good with lifetime support_ | Great, but no upgrades__ |
| Table system| Bridge_________________ | MFT__________________ |
| Table setup | Std config good size______ | Small for larger casework |
| Table ridgid | B300 looks solid__________ | Did not stay square*1___|
| Table options| Lots of ideas, std sizes___ | another MFT (proprietary) |
| Dust collect | Very good with front port_ | Good, but not impressed*3 |

*1 I messed with the rail height adjustment and could move the rail left or right when changing heights. This puts the 90 degree fence out of square.
I have this problem with my MFT, and I must adjust it each time I start an important project.
*2 There might be other standard offerings for clamps that I am not aware of. I like the EZ clamps better under the rails, Festools work well in the MFT.
*3 I made some custom 'EZ modifications' to my 6 1/2" circular saw and its dust collection is already better than the Festool. When starting the F saw it blows out a big puff of dust and there are splinters thrown off the front of the saw while it is cutting down the rail. There was also a huge cloud when finishing the cut, but This would go away with some backer material. All in all I was hoping for something better for the price.
I have a Bosch and PC saw for my EZ setup, and the PC with the front dc connection works better - it's the right location.

If you have any items to dispute or add I'd really like to hear them.

I know this has been discussed countless places, but I am interested to see what you guys(& gals) think.

Brian
  #46  
Old 08-22-2009, 07:44 AM
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Default Burt Waddell

Brian,

Your comments are what I would expect. I have never been impressed with the Festool saw for my use but I also have to give it credit that in certain applications it is nearly ideal.

The Makita 5008MGA is a very nice saw and at this time I think that overall it is probably the best saw available for use with the EZ System. The most used saw in my shop is the Hilti 267e (discontinued). The 10 1/4" makita also sees a good bit of use especially for Gang cutting and stuff like that. I also use the Makita 5008MGA a good bit on medium to heavy stock. About the only other saw I use is the Makita cordless cement siding saw (there is also a woodworking saw just like it.) The built in dust collector can be handy for cutting in a customers house. Also that class of makita saws only turned about 2200 RPMS. That meant there was a minimum of dust fog.

Burt
  #47  
Old 08-22-2009, 07:45 AM
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Default Follow-up - Brian Kincaid

Well then. I came across a SMC user that wanted to sell his EZ smart gear so I bought it. I am very excited to get started! One I get my feet wet a little I'll be looking towards a bridge table.

Dino, you should be very proud of developing this system. I was willing to invest in the system that worked best for me regardless of cost. EZ smart won hands down.

Hats off to the community as well. The users here come up with very intelligent solutions to WW problems, and share them very well.

-Brian
  #48  
Old 08-22-2009, 07:45 AM
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Default Dino Makropoulos

Hi Brian.
The EZ Smart owners must be very proud for supporting eurekazone and the Dead Wood Concept.
Welcome to ez.
BTW, before you place your first order, give me a call to go over the upgrades and the best way to start building YOUR system.
908-222-7557

thanks.
  #49  
Old 08-22-2009, 07:46 AM
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Default Michael Schwartz

I own a number of festool products as well as the EZ smart system.

There is really no comparing the two systems, or manufacturers since they both make quality products that are different.

I own a Domino, and Festool random orbit sander as well as the vacuum. The domino is a pretty amazing system, and the festool sanders are hands down the best. Conveniently the hose from my Festool vacuum fits perfectly into the dust port on my Hilti wsc267-E that I use on my EZ rails.

I have enjoyed dealing with Eureka-zone since the first order I placed, where george called me the very next morning recommending some changes to my order to work better with the bridge. I have spoke with Dino on the phone for many hours, and I personally like dealing with a company of which I can talk to the owner/inventor.
  #50  
Old 08-22-2009, 07:48 AM
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Default Brian Kincaid

Comparison
Quote:
Originally Posted by Michael Schwartz
I own a number of festool products as well as the EZ smart system.
There is really no comparing the two systems, or manufacturers since they both make quality products that are different.
...
I personally like dealing with a company of which I can talk to the owner/inventor.


You and I are in the same boat now. I already own a Festool Domino, Sander, and Vac. To be honest I figured I would follow the current downstream and pick up their tracksaw.

I did my research and based on my needs the EZ smart system would give me more flexibility with no compromise on quality. I appreciate the good information shared here, and I hope to contribute more in the future.

-Brian
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