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Old 06-27-2014, 12:49 PM
jgowrie jgowrie is offline
 
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Default MFT STYLE clamps?

Has anyone seen an alternative to the INSANELY priced Festool clamp??

Here is the Festool version priced at over $50/clamp which is just F'in obscene

Festool 488030 Clamping ElemenTS 2-Pack by Festool http://www.amazon.com/dp/B000JNEC1Q/..._6jyRtb1DB3G6B
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Old 06-27-2014, 03:00 PM
bumpnstump bumpnstump is offline
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jgowrie View Post
Has anyone seen an alternative to the INSANELY priced Festool clamp??

Here is the Festool version priced at over $50/clamp which is just F'in obscene

Festool 488030 Clamping ElemenTS 2-Pack by Festool http://www.amazon.com/dp/B000JNEC1Q/..._6jyRtb1DB3G6B
John, I guess, "To each, their own"..... For most of my clamping issues on both my EZ-1 and my PBB (home-made work bench), I've found that a few 5/16" holes and some 5/16" inserts do everything I've ever needed.

In the pics, you can see some examples set up on my PBB (works almost the same on my EZ-1). In pic one, on the PBB, there are some 5/16" inserts that hold down the slotted pieces of 1/2" baltic ply. Also, on the outside of the PBB, there is a sliding platform that has a hole drilled in it to take a 5/16" bolt/knob that also holds down a slotted piece of 1/2" baltic. (The bigger hole in the sliding platform is a holder for my drill when I'm doing work at the PBB.) The ability to slide that platform and place it on any of the 4 sides of the PBB makes for an easy 'attack' plan when it's time to clamp something down.
If I need to clamp something down to the top of the table, I connect one of the slotted baltic pieces across two of the 5/16" inserts (or, an insert and the hole in the sliding platform- just depends on what I'm clamping, and where I want it to be located); slide the piece to be clamped under the slotted baltic; clamp down; perform operation. Quick and easy.

Pic two shows a variation on the theme for when I need a straight-edge for the clamping situation. Due to the erratic slotting of the square-ish baltic, coupled with the slide-ablity of the platform, infinite set-ups are possible.

Some folks are sold on the 3/4", spaced holes in their work top, and I'm sure that is a good way to go; I prefer the solid top that still gives me infinite adaptability.

Plus........ it's cheap....
Rick
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  #3  
Old 06-28-2014, 12:33 AM
Goblu Goblu is offline
 
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Grizzly has some of the ftool design for a much better price. I'll try to find the link. I haven't tried them, though if I decide to make the top with holes, I'll get them. Trouble is the shipping. I always wait till I have more things that I need before I order from the places that charge shipping.

Ok, here's the link. $25 for two, plus a couple of stops and a connector that may or may not be useful. The basic design is the same, but hard to tell for sure if they compare exactly. Someone on here mentioned them, I don't remember who, perhaps if they have them and read this, they'll chime in.
https://www.grizzly.com/products/Acc...-T10824/T25094
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Last edited by Goblu; 06-28-2014 at 12:38 AM.
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  #4  
Old 06-28-2014, 02:44 AM
Tw218 Tw218 is offline
 
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Default Grizzly clamp

I have the grizzly clamp that you linked to and it does not work very well at all.
I ordered a grizzly track for a European-style plunge saw they sell the track is good and I think this saw is pretty good except that the dust collection is not as good as Festool. I like the Dewalt clamps they seem to fit in the EZ t track or ssme's.
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  #5  
Old 06-28-2014, 10:26 AM
Goblu Goblu is offline
 
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Thanks, tw. Could you say what it is that you don't like about the Grizzley clamps? Is it the clamping power or something else?

The reason being that the Dewalt clamps probably won't work with dog holes in a bench top. Dewalts look like they'd be superior to the other clamps for clamping tracks of that style (not ez tracks) but not for the dog hole clamping. I've seen them in person and I've seen the Festool clamps in person and they are quite different in design.
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Old 06-28-2014, 10:32 AM
Goblu Goblu is offline
 
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oops, I didn't click the link. Those are different clamps. Here are the simpler clamps I thought you were referring to. The grizzlys are similar to those. They hold the track and also are used for clamping in dogholes and the front of the mftc as shown in the video for the mftc.
http://www.amazon.com/Festool-489570...festool+clamps

They are also cheaper than those elements clamps by a lot.

I'll probably take a look at the elements clamps next time I'm in Woodcraft. Rockler makes something to use with t-track, not the same but I've wondered about them. http://www.rockler.com/auto-lock-t-track-clamp
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Last edited by Goblu; 06-28-2014 at 10:38 AM.
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Old 06-28-2014, 07:00 PM
jgowrie jgowrie is offline
 
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All the clamps linked are a different style, with the exception of the Rockler clamp but it works with a t-Track and the tops of the Paulk/MFTC work tables are 1/2" plywood which would make using t-track not such a great option

The clamps need to lock the material in with lateral pressure as opposed to locking with a downward pressure.

Rick, I'm not sure how much lateral pressure your set up would apply.. can you comment on how successful that set up might be in that case? Basically, the main use for these clamps are for holding a piece of wood in place while belt sanding it. If your idea does apply enough lateral holding power I'm sure I could make it work even with 3/4" holes. I guess by using a few additional braces at the rear end to fight the sander pushing the stock back would work.
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Old 06-28-2014, 10:13 PM
bumpnstump bumpnstump is offline
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jgowrie View Post

Rick, I'm not sure how much lateral pressure your set up would apply.. can you comment on how successful that set up might be in that case? Basically, the main use for these clamps are for holding a piece of wood in place while belt sanding it. If your idea does apply enough lateral holding power I'm sure I could make it work even with 3/4" holes. I guess by using a few additional braces at the rear end to fight the sander pushing the stock back would work.
John, when I'm belt sanding on my PBB, I almost never use clamps, unless the material is very tall and narrow (see pic 1). For sanding flat stock, I set up two 'keepers' on the front edge of my PBB, and one at the end of the PBB to keep the belt sander from shooting the stock off of the table (like what's shown in the first pic.). If the material is bowed and wants to ride up over the end keeper, either an Irwin quick-clamp, or, what's shown in pic three solves that problem.

Re. lateral pressure, the honest answer is "yes; maybe; no". "Yes" in the majority of situations (90%), you can apply adequate lateral pressure; "maybe" because you really don't know till you try; "no" because there will always be a situation that pushes the limit. But, I think that would be true w/any clamping system.
If you're wondering if what I've shown would work for you, perhaps you could mill a couple of slotted pieces, grab a scrap piece of ply, drill some holes in the ply, try out the holding power of the slotted pieces.

To me, one of the 'trickiest' clamping set-ups is to securely clamp a circle (pic 2). If you can clamp it securely enough to have it not spin, you win. In the pic, I could still spin the 9 1/4" circle w/some effort. The weak culprit was the black, HDPE holder on the side- couldn't 'bite' into the wood firmly enough. Changed it out for a wooden holder- no spin on the disc w/o major effort.

Just for fun, pic 4 shows using the clamp pieces on the side of the PBB- very handy.
Rick
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  #9  
Old 06-29-2014, 12:07 PM
jgowrie jgowrie is offline
 
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I will make a few of those slotted wood clamps.. I'm sure they will come in handy for plenty of situation and I have to believe they will work well enough for palm sanding operations. I used belt sanding as my example because of the friction created between stock and the belt but in all honesty, I use a shooting board set up for belt sanding so I never have any issues there. I will most likely use these lateral style clamps for securing material for palm sanding and router work being performed with the SSRK or freehand.
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  #10  
Old 06-29-2014, 05:48 PM
Goblu Goblu is offline
 
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Here's another concept that would work with mftc tops with the holes. It involves mounting various toggle clamps, including an inline clamp to a base that fits in a dog hole. http://www.leevalley.com/US/wood/pag...=1,43838,70865

Now the leevalley is expensive too, but it looks easy to copy the concept, using plywood and some dowels and jig knobs. No problem to make the other (stop) side similar to the ftool clamping elements, some shaped plywood to put in the doghole and tighten down. I have some of these bessey toggle clamps (inline one is on my Kreg jig) and they are pretty nice. Only two issues would be whether it is low profile enough on the toggle clamp side and have enough travel. But the concept of side pressure is the same if you are using the inline clamp shown in the picture at the top of the page. Of course, you could use the other styles too for downward clamping pressure.

The Bessey toggle clamps go on sale periodically which the ftools never do. So it is possible to get Besseys clamps more reasonably priced through places like woodcraft when they are on sale.

Of course, there are other toggle clamps even cheaper. Here's the peachtree page for the clamps. They have an unmounted inline Mini T-Handle Toggle Clamp that looks like it's an inch high for $10. They have some others, too. Peachtree's website is a bit hard to negotiate, scroll down to find the inline toggle clamps.
http://www.ptreeusa.com/toggleClamps.htm

I'm interested in these and will likely make some up once I make the table, but that's a future thing. I'll probably start with the peachtree mini and make a thin base to secure in the doghole, plus some stops. Perhaps change the tip to a broader one or just use more of the small clamps to get the pressure needed from various angles.
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Last edited by Goblu; 06-29-2014 at 05:52 PM.
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